Matt, I agree with th= e others that w's insults are inexcusable, but I must ask a question.

What do you do i= f your low over the departure end of the runway and the engine quits?

1. Land at= high speed flaps up.

2. Lower the flaps and deal with the big trim and pitch = change while making all the other decisions and actions required in paralle= l.

<= /span>

3. = ?

Regards,

Bill Ha= nnahan

wfhannahan@yahoo.com

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "m= arv@lancair.net" <marv@lancair.net>
To: lml <lml>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 4:02 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: Flaps on take-off?

Posted for Matt losangeles=0A<ma= ttinlosangeles@yahoo.com>:

> I feel much safer adding 5 knots = or so on the ground before I lift off so I
>don't have to mess=0Awit= h trim when I am low to the ground. I could see a
>scenario where I = take off IFR and I am immediately handed off to departure=0A
>control= while I am putting the flaps up. They tell me to do something the
>= requires me to look at my map and the next thing you know,=0Awhile distract= ed,
> I am at an unusual attitude really close to the ground. W= hen I am down low
>like that I want to make sure if I=0Aam distracte= d it isn't a problem, the
>plane just keeps on climbing along at Vy = or so.
>
> I also would guess if you use=0Aflaps on take= off, this adds drag and slows
>your rate of climb (I have not = tested this). I am able to be at Vy a couple=0A
>seconds after t= ake off and I am going to get to a safer altitude before the
>guy us= ing flaps (again, this is my guess since I have not=0Atested the two
&g= t;scenarios).
>
> Another thing. It is an experimental a= ircraft. As it states on the
>EAA, "There=0Ais  no FA= A approved flight manual or POH for experimental
>aircraft, nor is t= here a  TC".
>
>=0AOhh, what about thos= e reno racer Legacy aircraft that have just bonded thier
>flaps in p= lace so they can't go down in order to eliminate the=0Adrag of the
>= hindges. I guess they are not flying those aircraft the way they were meant=
>to be flown. You could argue they are reno=0Aracers I suppose. It = is also
>likely they are using those planes the other 51 weeks out o= f the year to fly
>all over the place and those=0Aplanes don't seem = to be crashing on takeoff.
>
> "I believe everyone would= agree that flaps do add a margin of safety"
>=0A I personally c= onsider myself part of everyone and I don't agree that flaps
>do in = fact add a margin of safety on take off. I use them on=0Alanding so I can <= br>>see out the window and out of habit I suppose. If the speed you= land at makes
>such a difference, then the best=0Athing to be doing= is flying a plane that
>lands at a slower speed.
>
= > Perhaps if we were all 100 hour pilots, blindly=0Afollowing the POH ma= kes
>sense. It is funny, I remember having this EXACT same argument = on a Mooney
>board. I used to take off without=0Aflaps when I had a = Mooney and I heard the
>same thing there. Follow the POH explicitly&= nbsp;or you are completely reckless
>and should=0Ahave your license = taken away. At least those Mooney guys had a
>point. That was a cert= ified aircraft with a POH that said to take off with=0A
>flaps.
&g= t;
> Something else to consider, if flaps are so critical to f= light on our
>planes, why on earth don't they=0Ahave a back up syste= m to ensure they always
>go down when needed like our landing gear h= as? My guess is because the plane
>will fly just=0Afine without them= .
>
> Matt
>
>
> ___________________= _____________
> From: Art Jensen=0A<flycassutts@yahoo.com>
&= gt; To: lml@lancaironline.net
> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 1:46 P= M
> Subject: [LML] Re: To=0AMarv
>
> Maybe Wo= lfgang was short on political correctness, but the truth remains
>th= at if you cannot or do not fly the=0Aplane as it was meant to be flown then=
>you should not be flying that plane.
>
> I believe e= veryone would agree that flaps do add=0Aa margin of safety and
>shou= ld be used for take-off and landing as per your POH and I believe every >instructor giving training in a=0ALancair would agree.  If a= n instructor
>reading this disagrees, please share why you disagree = with me.
>
> Art
>=0A
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for = iPad
>
>
> ________________________________=
> From:  steve=0A<n5276j@aol.com>;  To:&nb= sp; <lml@lancaironline.net>;  Subject:
> [LML] = Re: To=0AMarv  Sent:  Mon, Aug 12, 2013 5:39:28 PM = ;
> I second your post. I am surprised by the comme= nt.=0A
>
> steve alderman   N25SA 360
>=
> .
> -----Original Message----- From: Claudette Colwell=0A&= lt;colwell.ch@gmail.com>
>To: lml <lml@lancaironline.net> S= ent: Mon, Aug 12, 2013 5:43 am Subject:
>[LML] To=0AMarv  =
> It is very regretful the comment from Wolfgang apparently directed= to Matt
>appeared on the LML. This has always=0Abeen a constr= uctive exchange of
>information and ideas. That type of person= al comment is not in keeping with
>the spirit of=0Acooperative shari= ng of information.
>
> Claudette

=0A

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