X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2013 14:21:22 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-yh0-f48.google.com ([209.85.213.48] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTPS id 6393934 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 07:45:24 -0400 Received-SPF: neutral receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.213.48; envelope-from=craig@skybolt.net Received: by mail-yh0-f48.google.com with SMTP id b20so1674906yha.35 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 04:44:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date :to:x-gm-message-state; bh=QI4/BUSAUwN4IJmgChEdYAoxU9NuUlAHHsqaszrg+sY=; b=aydl8yWA4Urjdwm+sPEa63FGi4NQ7Xh6BVkhYhBd35niVv4EgDYh6pByed5uMY/TXm XoJWJkwaN+xyK2QI2vDDuGETVAV88hUNNmSGYw8Cx9PeoKKAw5tQkuFgFXJTixIx0CnN gKKoJ/OC3eKPMaU8sjIuSB9zxw5mxwE3mv6RnXkfFJ94m+sSL6iVqI+Auaqu45z5yH+d vY62vIAsbVqdFbh/TaucYylR1OHDYtj5Yqhi5At9PCnw0CsAzlOkgbiQa7cj9seh8vPM 0fQ7GZff9IVNmF1MXvvQbZm8P//5HEgsKD2arZIC07un9etISWzKdO3grwk2H3AVhNL7 wSMA== X-Received: by 10.236.17.165 with SMTP id j25mr24817568yhj.89.1375011889466; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 04:44:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from ?IPv6:2600:100a:b110:9064:8173:a77f:689a:bc5d? ([2600:100a:b110:9064:8173:a77f:689a:bc5d]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id j63sm76993982yhh.17.2013.07.28.04.44.48 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 28 Jul 2013 04:44:48 -0700 (PDT) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-F8BF3706-B6A8-4623-9CE7-2D6B59C8D6B2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Original-Message-Id: <83438086-D949-491F-924B-2F6201CAF949@skybolt.net> X-Original-Cc: "lml@lancaironline.net" X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10B350) From: Craig Schulze Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Potential Problem-Engine Vibration X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2013 06:44:46 -0500 X-Original-To: "vtailjeff@aol.com" X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmKqoGlZ3oGt0983rymV2BhSu/Xg5MJtoO8o1to+2vC5LLdksdYU8DPzrTLGlwUMpO0jbEZ --Apple-Mail-F8BF3706-B6A8-4623-9CE7-2D6B59C8D6B2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It could be possible for wear or manufacturing process to allow one blade to= have more play in pitch operation than the others.=20 Blue Skies, Craig Schulze=20 On Jul 27, 2013, at 5:36 PM, vtailjeff@aol.com wrote: > How is that mechanically possible? All blades are attached to the same pit= ch change mechanism. >=20 > J >=20 > Sent from my iPad >=20 > On Jul 27, 2013, at 12:34 PM, Steve Colwell wrote: >=20 >> That is a possibility I had not considered, I will ask Hartzell about it.= Another possibility is the movable crankshaft counter weights failing to p= osition correctly. >>=20 >> Steve Colwell =20 >>=20 >>=20 >> From: Craig Schulze >> To: Steve Colwell =20 >> Cc: "lml@lancaironline.net" =20 >> Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 7:42 AM >> Subject: Re: Potential Problem-Engine Vibration >>=20 >> It sounds to me that you may have an issue with your prop hub not changin= g the pitch exactly the same on all the blades. The vibration you are feel= ing is one blade taking a larger bite of air and then causing everything to w= obble. It settles in sometimes but when you change the power setting the pi= tch on the prop is adjusted by the hub unevenly. =20 >>=20 >> Blue Skies, >> Craig Schulze >> Lancair N73S >>=20 >>=20 >> On Jul 25, 2013, at 1:22 PM, "Steve Colwell" wrote= : >>=20 >> In the first 40 hours I had vibration so severe it caused stick shake. T= his >> has continued intermittently more or less for almost 400 hours. >>=20 >> First I found and fixed several Cowl Interference locations, then adjuste= d >> and notched the hat section of the nose gear door. >>=20 >> At about 50 hours I paid Barrett to tear down the engine to replace the >> Performance pistons (prematurely worn top rings) with stock ECI pistons. >> Also found a cracked case. >>=20 >> We had the Kelly Alternator balanced and rebuilt at a shop recommended by= >> Bill Bainbridge of B & C. Sorry I can't remember the name, the Legacy fi= le >> is in Texas.=20 >>=20 >> I rounded the leading edges of the elevator counter weights when building= so >> I temporarily squared them off to go back to the stock shape for testing.= >>=20 >> All gear doors were checked in flight with video camera.=20 >>=20 >> The pitch trim hinge pin had play, I replaced it per Chris Zavatson's web= >> page. >>=20 >> Along the way the prop was balanced twice. >>=20 >> I could not get more that the usual vibration (which always seemed to be t= oo >> much) on test flights. Then, unpredictably, vibration magnitude would >> increase with power reduction on some later flight. I say unpredictably >> because I could not get increased vibration by attempting to duplicate >> previous conditions. Let's hope a solution surfaces at Airventure. >>=20 >> Steve Colwell Legacy RG IO550-N with Hartzell 3 Blade >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Pa= ul >> Miller >> Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 7:22 AM >> To: lml@lancaironline.net >> Subject: [LML] Re: Potential Problem-Engine Vibration >>=20 >> Ed Martin's legacy is smooth. Mine has had a lot of annoying vibes as yo= u >> describe but virtually all have been removed with lots of cowling >> interference fixes and plug change. Many pilots forget the alternator ca= n >> be a wicked source of vibration and it is almost in the same plane as the= >> prop. >>=20 >> The problems I had originally were in that freq range and visible at the >> wingtip also. >>=20 >> Paul >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 --Apple-Mail-F8BF3706-B6A8-4623-9CE7-2D6B59C8D6B2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It could be possible for wear or manuf= acturing process to allow one blade to have more play in pitch operation tha= n the others. 

Blue Skies,
Craig Schulze 

On Jul 27, 2013, at 5:36 PM, vtailjeff@aol.com wrote:

How is that mechanically possible? All blades are attached to the same pi= tch change mechanism.

J

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 27, 2013, at 12:34 PM, Steve Colwell <mcmess1919@yahoo.com> wrote:

That is a possibility I had not considered, I will ask Hartzell about it= .  Another possibility is the movable crankshaft counter weights failin= g to position correctly.

Steve Colwell 



= From: Craig Schulze <crai= g@skybolt.net>
To: Steve Colwell <mcmess1919@yaho= o.com>
Cc: "lml@lancaironline.net" <lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 7:42 AM
Sub= ject: Re: Potential Problem-Engine Vibration
<= div class=3D"y_msg_container">
It sounds to me that you may have an issue= with your prop hub not changing the pitch exactly the  same on all the= blades.  The vibration you are feeling is one blade taking a larger bi= te of air and then causing everything to wobble.  It settles in sometim= es but when you change the power setting the pitch on the prop is adjusted b= y the hub unevenly. 

Blue Skies,
Craig Schulze
Lancair N7= 3S


On Jul 25, 2013, at 1:22 PM, "Steve Colwell" <mcmess191= 9@yahoo.com> wrote:

In the first 40 hours I had vibration so s= evere it caused stick shake.  This
has continued intermittently more= or less for almost 400 hours.

First I found and fixed several Cowl Interference locations, then adjusted
and notched the hat s= ection of the nose gear door.

At about 50 hours I paid Barrett to tea= r down the engine to replace the
Performance pistons (prematurely worn to= p rings) with stock ECI pistons.
Also found a cracked case.

We had= the Kelly Alternator balanced and rebuilt at a shop recommended by
Bill B= ainbridge of B & C.  Sorry I can't remember the name, the Legacy fi= le
is in Texas.

I rounded the leading edges of the elevator count= er weights when building so
I temporarily squared them off to go back to t= he stock shape for testing.

All gear doors were checked in flight wit= h video camera.

The pitch trim hinge pin had play, I replaced it per= Chris Zavatson's web
page.

Along the way the prop was balanced tw= ice.

I could not get more that the usual vibration (which always seem= ed to be too
much) on test flights.  Then, unpredictably, vibration magnitude would
increase with power reduction o= n some later flight.  I say unpredictably
because I could not get in= creased vibration by attempting to duplicate
previous conditions.  L= et's hope a solution surfaces at Airventure.

Steve Colwell  Lega= cy RG IO550-N with Hartzell 3 Blade



-----Original Message----= -
From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On B= ehalf Of Paul
Miller
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 7:22 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Potential Problem-Engine V= ibration

Ed Martin's legacy is smooth.  Mine has had a lot of an= noying vibes as you
describe but virtually all have been removed with lot= s of cowling
interference fixes and plug change.  Many pilots forget the alternator can
be a wicked source of vibration and it i= s almost in the same plane as the
prop.

The problems I had origina= lly were in that freq range and visible at the
wingtip also.

Paul<= br>


= --Apple-Mail-F8BF3706-B6A8-4623-9CE7-2D6B59C8D6B2--