X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omr-d03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.109.200] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTPS id 6393944 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 08:13:36 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.109.200; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.141]) by omr-d03.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 99C31700000A1 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 08:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-mtb004c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mtb004.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.234.205]) by mtaomg-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 66417E000081 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 08:13:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com Full-name: Sky2high Message-ID: <87deb.57ee9c9a.3f2664ce@aol.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2013 08:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [LML] Re: L360 Over centre springs To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_87deb.57ee9c9a.3f2664ce_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 168 X-Originating-IP: [67.175.156.123] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1375013582; bh=n6LML7QCSPD22YeW2/ttld8H7BZf8Js224SDBwgS5qM=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=TQTbCp8s7sKPq0/WSsRIq3FSUm729kEeKLni2LRhQUoepXIsflrvtRu2tc0bK5kCB PfMqiK+5WXoyNITIk3oykEMscAINEKCFHOlbhulQ0+Ir7/2c4Hn469GiNcdZS7bo5S vkFdQtCCUCyKZFPsR/J0lPNI1IEQHQVUGWhAb0FA= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338d51f50ace0ba1 --part1_87deb.57ee9c9a.3f2664ce_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Rob, et al, =20 Chris is right. =20 Let's remember that the "rat-trap" springs purpose is to ensure the over= =20 center link is locked and remains so, not extend the gear. On jacks or in= =20 the air these springs may make it seem slow to get the mains to lock at th= e=20 end of the non-hydraulic extension. On jacks it should take only a few=20 pounds of outward pressure to finally get the over centers to lock - in th= e=20 air a minor slip or skid will use air against the middle door to provide t= he=20 pressure to ensure a lock. One way to avoid this minor problem is to=20 lubricate all the gear pivot points and keep the springs clean and lubrica= ted=20 (LPS-2 is OK) so that the coils can move against one another easily since= =20 they are so close together. =20 I think I got my rat-trap springs before 1996 (first flight) and they =20 worked adequately for me since then. I recently had a call from the new o= wner=20 of the airplane and he said he was going to replace the springs because =20 they did not have the same shape as the newer ones. OK as that will make = him=20 feel more comfortable.=20 =20 The real test is that the over-center links are easily locked and that =20 they stay locked. =20 Scott Krueger =20 =20 In a message dated 7/28/2013 6:34:40 A.M. Central Daylight Time, =20 stevens5@swiftdsl.com.au writes: =20 Chris,=20 Thanks for the encouragement. I am afraid my confidence in those rat trap= =20 springs has been rather battered. At the very least I will be measuring=20 those springs at each annual inspection. I would like to incorporate both= =20 types of springs if I could ascertain what coil extension springs I need, = but I=20 don=E2=80=99t know how to specify them. =20 I am still some way off flying yet, so I have time to research it.=20 Thanks again for your input.=20 Rob.=20 =20 =20 From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of=20 Chris Zavatston Sent: Sunday, 28 July 2013 1:35 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: L360 Over centre springs =20 Rob, =20 Let Lancair know about the replacement springs going soft. =20 I am still using my original rat-trap springs after 15 years (1,400 hrs)= =20 of flying. They work great. Springs are not rocket science, but it sound= s=20 like you've rein into an inventory or manufacturing issue. =20 =20 The rat trap spring was a great design improvement. =20 Once you get your hands on a good set, you'll be set for life. =20 =20 Chris Zavatson =20 N91CZ =20 360std =20 _www.N91CZ.net_ (http://www.n91cz.net/)=20 Sent from my spiffy iPhone =20 On Jul 27, 2013, at 9:12 AM, "Stevens Family" <_stevens5@swiftdsl.com.au_= =20 (mailto:stevens5@swiftdsl.com.au) > wrote: =20 Another query for those who have, or have built the L320 or 360,=20 I purchase a partly built L360 kit some years ago, which I am still in the= =20 process of building. It came with the original undercarriage. I decided to= =20 upgrade to the outback gear early in my build process, and installed it=20 some years ago. After a couple of years, I discovered that the Rat Trap=20 springs were not maintaining their tension when the gear was in the retrac= ted=20 position, and on occasions, when I extended the gear (which I do by hand a= s=20 the aircraft is upside down in the jig) the hook would disengage from the= =20 over centre link. Upon enquiry with Lancair, I was advised that they had h= ad=20 a bad batch of springs, so they subsequently replaced them, free of charge= .=20 The replacements are shown on the order as being =E2=80=9C Item 1441=E2=80= =9D and =E2=80=9CSEQ=20 U10B=E2=80=9D. That was in early 2009. With the new springs, all seemed in= order.=20 Today I was again working in the wheel well, and discovered that once=20 again these springs had lost tension and were not remaining engaged when t= he=20 gear was in the retracted position. I have scanned the LML archives and=20 notice a number of others have had similar problems. One poster had only b= een=20 saved because he had installed both the Rat Trap springs, and the =E2=80= =9Cscreen door =E2=80=9D springs. Others had had Rat Trap springs break. All of this has = severely=20 shaken my faith in them, as there is no back up if they mal function.=20 My options from here appear to be to either try another pair of Rat Trap= =20 springs, or install the original screen door springs, or perhaps install= =20 both. However the screen door springs which came with the original kit are= too=20 long for the outback undercarriage, as the distance between the hinge bolt= =20 of the over centre link, where they attach at one end, and the=20 undercarriage pivot bolt where they attach at the other end, is about 60mm= (2 3/8=E2=80=9D)=20 shorter on the outback gear.=20 Has anyone else had problems with later Rat Trap springs in recent years= =20 since the original problem ones?=20 Has anyone out there used screen door springs with the outback gear? If=20 so, what specifications are the springs?=20 Thanks in anticipation.=20 Rob Stevens,=20 Perth, Western Australia.=20 --part1_87deb.57ee9c9a.3f2664ce_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
Rob, et al,
 
Chris is right.
 
Let's remember that the "rat-trap" springs purpose is to ensure t= he=20 over center link is locked and remains so, not extend the gear.  On ja= cks=20 or in the air these springs may make it seem slow to get the mains to lock = at=20 the end of the non-hydraulic extension.  On jacks it should take = only=20 a few pounds of outward pressure to finally get the over centers to lock - = in=20 the air a minor slip or skid will use air against the middle door= to=20 provide the pressure to ensure a lock.  One way to avoid this minor pr= oblem=20 is to lubricate all the gear pivot points and keep the springs clean and=20 lubricated (LPS-2 is OK) so that the coils can move against one another eas= ily=20 since they are so close together.
 
I think I got my rat-trap springs before 1996 (first flight) and = they=20 worked adequately for me since then.  I recently had a call from the n= ew=20 owner of the airplane and he said he was going to replace the springs becau= se=20 they did not have the same shape as the newer ones.  OK as that w= ill=20 make him feel more comfortable. 
 
The real test is that the over-center links are easily locked and= that=20 they stay locked.
 
Scott Krueger
 
In a message dated 7/28/2013 6:34:40 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 stevens5@swiftdsl.com.au writes:
=

Chris,

 

Thanks for the encour= agement.=20 I am afraid my confidence in those rat trap springs has been rather batte= red.=20 At the very least I will be measuring those springs at each annual inspec= tion.=20 I would like to incorporate both types of springs if I could ascertain wh= at=20 coil extension springs I need, but I don=E2=80=99t know how to specify th= em.=20

 

I am still some way o= ff flying=20 yet, so I have time to research it.

 

Thanks again for your= =20 input.

 

Rob.

 

 

From:=20 Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of C= hris=20 Zavatston
Sent: Sunday, 28 July 2013 1:35 AM
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: L360 Over centre=20 springs

 

Rob,

Let Lancair know about the replacement springs going= =20 soft.

I am still using my original rat-trap springs after = 15=20 years (1,400 hrs) of flying.  They work great.  Springs are not= =20 rocket science, but it sounds like you've rein into an inventory or=20 manufacturing issue.  

The rat trap spring was a great design=20 improvement.

Once you get your hands on a good set, you'll be set= for=20 life.

 

Chris Zavatson

N91CZ

360std

www.N91CZ.net

Sent from my spif= fy=20 iPhone


On Jul 27, 2013, a= t 9:12=20 AM, "Stevens Family" <stevens5@swiftdsl.com.au>= =20 wrote:

Another query for those who have, or have built th= e L320=20 or 360,

 

I purchase a partly built L360 kit some years ago,= which=20 I am still in the process of building. It came with the original=20 undercarriage. I decided to upgrade to the outback gear early in my bui= ld=20 process, and installed it some years ago. After a couple of years, I=20 discovered that the Rat Trap springs were not maintaining their tension= when=20 the gear was in the retracted position, and on occasions, when I extend= ed=20 the gear (which I do by hand as the aircraft is upside down in the jig)= the=20 hook would disengage from the over centre link. Upon enquiry with Lanca= ir, I=20 was advised that they had had a bad batch of springs, so they subsequen= tly=20 replaced them, free of charge. The replacements are shown on the order = as=20 being =E2=80=9C Item 1441=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CSEQ U10B=E2=80=9D. That= was in early 2009. With the new=20 springs, all seemed in order.

 

Today I was again working in the wheel well, and= =20 discovered that once again these springs had lost tension and were not= =20 remaining engaged when the gear was in the retracted position. I have= =20 scanned the LML archives and notice a number of others have had similar= =20 problems. One poster had only been saved because he had installed both = the=20 Rat Trap springs, and the =E2=80=9Cscreen door=E2=80=9D springs. Others= had had Rat Trap=20 springs break. All of this has severely shaken my faith in them, as the= re is=20 no back up if they mal function.

 

My options from here appear to be to either try an= other=20 pair of Rat Trap springs, or install the original screen door springs, = or=20 perhaps install both. However the screen door springs which came with t= he=20 original kit are too long for the outback undercarriage, as the distanc= e=20 between the hinge bolt of the over centre link, where they attach at on= e=20 end,  and the undercarriage pivot bolt where they attach at the ot= her=20 end, is about 60mm (2 3/8=E2=80=9D) shorter on the outback gear.

 

Has anyone else had problems with later Rat Trap s= prings=20 in recent years since the original problem ones?

Has anyone out there used screen door springs with= the=20 outback gear? If so, what specifications are the springs?

 

Thanks in anticipation.

 

Rob Stevens,

Perth, Western Australia.

 

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