X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omr-d07.mx.aol.com ([205.188.109.204] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTPS id 6384410 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 12:27:58 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.109.204; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.200]) by omr-d07.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 0946E700C07B0 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 12:27:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-mtb004c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mtb004.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.234.205]) by mtaomg-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id C9D86E000081 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 12:27:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com Full-name: Sky2high Message-ID: <26bd2.25e60c0b.3f2008eb@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 12:27:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [LML] ADS-B Tracking of Plane & Pilot: Precursor to User Fees? To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_26bd2.25e60c0b.3f2008eb_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 168 X-Originating-IP: [67.175.156.123] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1374596843; bh=PzlTVtaoZzj7SNtZNa3OSSk3hlhLonlOpsms0EgPMfM=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=nwMwyxeb0xZOgMRRhzo+XMoNoVZYP+8AKSNSVdKiEZOiqV2IyO2Qwx6ogdRJokcuh Xa5cCJ4aMLsS8Y671QIwhGHnnVoZdrZWhm8pdWl92y2Mm3mYNEwibuf0n83/SOrZAe qAA8qN76plVAmfYUFJyGepY6Qb64wrOf/Tzn1OTk= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:355132000:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33c851eeaeeb666a --part1_26bd2.25e60c0b.3f2008eb_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interesting that many of you think the trading of inflight details betwixt airplanes as essential to "free flight" is a gov't plot ala NSA snooping. Yet, no one seems to be concerned that there is no public mention of whether the hordes of drones operating in the NAS will be broadcasting ADS-B out. Uh, no mention of military aircraft operating in the NAS, in MOAs or on MTRs broadcasting ADS-B out either. Keep your eyes peeled, Grayhawk PS Go to http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/flashMap/index.cfm and click on ADS-B and its various buttons. PPS Military service volunteers I trust, Homeland Security/TSA/IRS are never to be trusted as they use Gov't unionized minions. In a message dated 7/22/2013 12:43:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, liegner@ptd.net writes: With ADS-B out, they will track your N number everywhere using your transponder output. That means not only tracking you (personally, wherever you are), but making it much easier to charge each N number according to the duration and time flying over the USA and "using" the national airspace asset. I was recently told that controllers using a pilots ADS-B output will respond to an initial ATC call by using the pilots name (not N number). This level of identification and personal recognition is a new frontier. What are pilots thinking in regards to having their movements tracked? In your car, unless you voluntarily have an EasyPass transponder, your Constitutional rights to free travel are (for the most part) unencumbered and unmonitored by the government. Jeff L -----Original Message----- From: Paul Miller Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Certificate Expiration Dates???? Date: July 21, 2013 9:12:24 PM EDT To: lml@lancaironline.net I think the intent is far more reaching than to purge non-flying aircraft from the database. It is likely to get a grip on aircraft registered to foreign entities through US trusts and many of these aircraft operate overseas and are controlled by non-US persons. While these are typically allowed and approved in the past by the FAA, the latest news releases indicate the IG auditor is criticizing the FAA for not having enough data and control on who controls these trusts. The Trusts are now being withheld as I read. With each country going after revenue grabs for N-registered aircraft abroad, I suspect a revenue grab domestically for "foreigners" using the label of "N" will appear some day and it will be more than $5. Anytime someone creates a database of owners of objects, the government finds a way to collect revenue on those assets. Canada (my country) does that now with the aircraft registry on each flight and its not hard to imagine how it might play out when the database is complete with newly confirmed mailing addresses of all flying N-registered aircraft. I think it is inevitable that owners of aircraft are going to be asked to pay to fly just as we are in Canada and owners are in Europe. But, you have to have a database of verified billing addresses before you can send out invoices. -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html --part1_26bd2.25e60c0b.3f2008eb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Interesting that many of you think the trading of inflight details bet= wixt=20 airplanes as essential to "free flight" is a gov't plot ala NSA snooping.&n= bsp;=20 Yet, no one seems to be concerned that there is no public mention of= =20 whether the hordes of drones operating in the NAS will be broadcasting= =20 ADS-B out.  Uh, no mention of military aircraft operating in the=20 NAS, in  MOAs or on MTRs broadcasting ADS-B out either.
 
Keep your eyes peeled,
 
Grayhawk
 
PS Go to http://www.faa.gov/n= extgen/flashMap/index.cfm =20 and click on ADS-B and its various buttons.
 
PPS Military service volunteers I trust, Homeland Security/TSA/IRS are= =20 never to be trusted as they use Gov't unionized minions.
 
In a message dated 7/22/2013 12:43:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 liegner@ptd.net writes:
= With=20 ADS-B out, they will track your N number everywhere using your transponde= r=20 output.  That means not only tracking you (personally, wherever you = are),=20 but making it much easier to charge each N number according to the durati= on=20 and time flying over the USA and "using" the national airspace asset.
=
I=20 was recently told that controllers using a pilots ADS-B output will respo= nd to=20 an initial ATC call by using the pilots name (not N number).  This l= evel=20 of identification and personal recognition is a new frontier.

What= are=20 pilots thinking in regards to having their movements tracked?  In yo= ur=20 car, unless you voluntarily have an EasyPass transponder, your Constituti= onal=20 rights to free travel are (for the most part) unencumbered and unmonitore= d by=20 the government. 

Jeff L


-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Paul Miller <pjdmiller@gmail.com>
Subject:= Re:=20 [LML] Re: Certificate Expiration Dates????
Date: July 21, 2013 9:12:24= PM=20 EDT
To: lml@lancaironline.net


I think the intent is far mor= e=20 reaching than to purge non-flying aircraft from the database.  It is= =20 likely to get a grip on aircraft registered to foreign entities through U= S=20 trusts and many of these aircraft operate overseas and are controlled by= =20 non-US persons.   While these are typically allowed and approve= d in=20 the past by the FAA, the latest news releases indicate the IG auditor is= =20 criticizing the FAA for not having enough data and control on who control= s=20 these trusts.  The Trusts are now being withheld as I read.  Wi= th=20 each country going after revenue grabs for N-registered aircraft abroad, = I=20 suspect a revenue grab domestically for "foreigners" using the label of "= N"=20 will appear some day and it will be more than $5.

Anytime someone= =20 creates a database of owners of objects, the government finds a way to co= llect=20 revenue on those assets.  Canada (my country) does that now with the= =20 aircraft registry on each flight and its not hard to imagine how it might= play=20 out when the database is complete with newly confirmed mailing addresses = of=20 all flying N-registered aircraft.   I think it is inevitable th= at=20 owners of aircraft are going to be asked to pay to fly just as we are in= =20 Canada and owners are in Europe.   But, you have to have a data= base=20 of verified billing addresses before you can send out=20 invoices.

--
For archives and unsub=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html
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