X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 07:42:04 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from bay0-omc3-s11.bay0.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.149] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTP id 6305473 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 03 Jun 2013 20:05:02 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.54.190.149; envelope-from=peterpawaviation@hotmail.com Received: from BAY152-W23 ([65.54.190.188]) by bay0-omc3-s11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 3 Jun 2013 17:04:26 -0700 X-TMN: [hiLvRI7nLVESA9O+c7A1RPsQc8+G0S7s] X-Originating-Email: [peterpawaviation@hotmail.com] X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: peterpawaviation@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_a1d8a59f-d2c6-4bd1-aaf2-19c100b24473_" From: PETER WILLIAMS X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Subject: RE: [LML] Re: ACCIDENT INFORMATION IS USEFUL X-Original-Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 20:04:25 -0400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jun 2013 00:04:26.0291 (UTC) FILETIME=[13824830:01CE60B7] --_a1d8a59f-d2c6-4bd1-aaf2-19c100b24473_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BILL BOY OH BOY do i agree with you my first thought was "hell the number= s are the same as what i fly now. COULD NOT BE FARTHER FROM THE TRUTH when the 4P stalls it is unexpected and all at once and you better have exp= erience and lots of altitude to recover. and the stick forces are not like anything else TRAINING AND MORE TRAINING IS VITAL.=20 i know that they put 300 hour 19 year olds into the left seat of B-17s= =3B but this aint war and it aint the same. i have ten hours in a TBM and it aint the same. for whatever re= ason the LANCAIR IV stick forces get very big above 160 knots.... not tr= ue in the TBM=2C and TBM stalls are benign. even though the speeds are similar. the disadvantage (including fuel burn a= nd price) of the TBM is that it is necessary to get up into the flight leve= ls to be economical (sic?) hell=2C i get 238 knots at 6=2C500 feet in my 4P @ 17.5 gph SAFETY RECORD LOUSY=20 it is my understanding that 11% of the second/subsequent owners crash on th= e way home from the purchase. i find that in the regular aviation publications=2C accidents are regularly= reviewed. if there was ever a need for accident discussion it is Lancair p= ilots. it is my intention to occasionally review the Lancair accidents HOW ABOUT THIS ONE (got if from a radio shop i use=3B he lost a customer) 20 hours in type=3B transition from a Bonanza. 7.000 feet=2C IFR picking up= ice. and... killing himself and his passenger. SHIT=2C what was he doing there in the first place. 20 hours HOTROD i repeat here what my Lady said upon seeing a Lancair 4P: he said it is a= HOTROD Then she asked me about the safety record: A "terrible" she was comfortable that she could get the C-340 to the ground if there was= a problem. NOT the 4P. the result is that i will likely have the "safety wing" modification s= o that she feels safe. (if she feels safe=2C my life is better) i have 93 hours in type in eight months and feel at home in the airplane= =3B problem or issue come up i can handle it as the plane and i are already= in concert. WE should create a list of "minimum safety Requirement" for a Lancair pilot= . it might save some future lives of second buyers. THE FUTURE it is my hope that prospective Lancair buyer will read these thoughts and a= s result=2C THINK peter Date: Mon=2C 3 Jun 2013 15:10:02 -0700 From: billhogarty@gmail.com To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: ACCIDENT INFORMATION IS USEFUL Peter: I talked to the owner of this plane shortly after the accident. He = was aware of the problem and hired the ferry pilot to take the plane to hav= e the problem fixed. Evidently there were two cells in the wing where the = vent holes were not functioning and only one of them was found during the r= epair. The ferry pilot found the second one on the return trip.=0A= The problem with the inaccessible fuel control in the Lancair has been kno= w for a long time and=2C like you=2C I opted for inertia reels in addition = to the standard seat belts. Yes=2C it is a little cumbersome but that's th= e "belt and suspender" approach.=0A= Too bad we cant require training for new pilots and new owners. Regards=2C= Bill Hogarty On Mon=2C Jun 3=2C 2013 at 11:25 AM=2C PETER WILLIAMS wrote: =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= ACCIDENT INFORMATION IS USEFUL While my 4P was being worked on a read about an accident. =0A= WHAT HAPPENED =0A= the pilot was ferrying the Lancair IV or IVP for the owner=3B he topped the= tanks and did his flight planning He ran out of gas short of the intended airport and died in the emergency l= anding. he should have had enough =0A= fuel and the gages showed fuel available.(and we can assume that according = to fuel flow and time=2C he perceived that he still had fuel in the tanks) =0A= his head hit the panel =0A= WHY during the build of the wings a passage between portions of a tank was not = open as per the plans=3B =0A= it should have been. thus there was about 14 gallons that was not available= from that tank. =0A= the pilot had unhooked his shoulder belt to operate the fuel selector switc= h mounted on the floor. =0A= THE PILOT=20 was an experienced Lancair Pilot and an Airline pilot. Many hours and much = experience. =0A= MY SOLUTION =0A= 1. I had inertia reel shoulder belts installed in my plane prior to my fir= st flight in the plane =0A= 2. on the first long trip going south=2C we ran one tank dry 2a. on the trip north we ran the other tank dry =0A= 3. in both cases we carefully filled the tanks and learned how much fuel th= e plane would hold and=20 that all the fuel was available to the engine. (not just in the tank) =0A= i sat on one wing tip while we filled the last bit of fuel into the wi= ngs. this usually yields an additional=20 1.6 gallons in the tanks =0A= ERGO I now know that my plane can hold 109 gallons in the wing tanks=3B thus i s= et my fuel Totalizator at 106 gallons. =0A= I am not likely ever to be as experienced as the pilot of this accident=2C = but i can use the information to insulate myself from the problems that he = encountered.=20 =0A= so this is how i have benefited from this accident report=3B sad that a pil= ot was lost and sad for our community=2C a black mark on our airplanes =0A= FINALLY A SOBERING THOUGHT (the data is a little old=2C but significant none the less) =0A= as of Jan 2011 the following figures Lancair 4=2C 4P & 4PT=20 =0A= Flying airplanes 297 Airplanes destroyed 56 =0A= that is 16% of the signed off airplanes being destroyed in a untimely fashi= on. =0A= THE ANSWER =0A= Training=2C Training=2C Training and reasonable limits of your flying =0A= (for example: runway lengths=2C VFR ceiling & vis. requirements. Personal = IFR limits) Annual proficiency flights with a LOBO instructor would be beneficial =0A= fly safe and never stop learning =0A= peter =0A= = --_a1d8a59f-d2c6-4bd1-aaf2-19c100b24473_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
BILL

BOY OH BOY

 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B&nb= sp=3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B = =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B=  =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B&nb= sp=3B =3B my first thought was "hell the numbers are the same as what i= fly now.<= br>
 =3B = =3B =3B =3B =3B COULD NOT BE FARTHER FROM THE TRUTH

when the 4P stalls it is unexpecte= d and all at once and you better have experience and lots of altitude to re= cover.
=
 =3B =3B=  =3B =3B =3B =3B and the stick forces are not like anything= else
<= /font>
=
TRAINING AND MORE TRAIN= ING IS VITAL.
&n= bsp=3B =3B i know that they put 300 hour 19 year olds into the left sea= t of B-17s=3B but this aint war and it aint the same.

 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B&nbs= p=3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B i have ten hours in a TBM and = it aint the same. for whatever reason the LANCAIR =3B IV stick forces g= et very big above 160 knots.... =3B =3B not true in the TBM=2C = =3B and TBM stalls are benign.
even though the speeds are similar. the disadvantage (includi= ng fuel burn and price) of the TBM is that it is necessary to get up into t= he flight levels to be economical (sic?)

hell=2C i get 238 knots at 6=2C500 feet in my 4P<= font style=3D"" color=3D"#AC193D" face=3D"Comic Sans MS"> @ 17.5 gph=

SAFETY RECORD
 =3B =3B LOUSY <= font style=3D"" color=3D"#AC193D" face=3D"Comic Sans MS">
it is my understanding t= hat 11% of the second/subsequent owners crash on the way home from the purc= hase.
<= /font>
= i find that in th= e regular aviation publications=2C accidents are regularly reviewed. if the= re was ever a need for accident discussion it is Lancair pilots.

it is my intention to occasionall= y review the Lancair accidents

HOW ABOUT THIS ONE
(got if from a radio shop i use=3B he lost a customer)
20 hours in type=3B transit= ion from a Bonanza. 7.000 feet=2C IFR picking up ice. and... killing himsel= f and his passenger.
 =3B SHIT=2C what was he doing there in the first place. 20 hours
<= font style=3D"" color=3D"#AC193D" face=3D"Comic Sans MS">
HOTROD

i repeat =3B here what my Lady said= upon seeing a Lancair 4P: =3B he said it is a HOTROD
 =3B Then she asked me about t= he safety record: A "terrible"

she was comfortable that she could get the C-340 to the ground if t= here was a problem. NOT the 4P.
 =3B =3B =3B =3B the result is that i will l= ikely have the "safety wing" modification so that she feels safe. (if she f= eels safe=2C my life is better)

i have 93 hours in type in eight months and feel at home in = =3B the airplane=3B problem or issue come up i can handle it as the plane a= nd i are already in concert.

WE should create a list of "minimum safety Requirement" for a Lancai= r pilot. it might save some future lives of second buyers.

THE FUTURE
it is my hope that prospective Lancair= buyer will read these thoughts and as result=2C THINK

peter



=
Date: Mon=2C 3 Jun 2013 15:10:02 -0700
From: bil= lhogarty@gmail.com
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: ACCID= ENT INFORMATION IS USEFUL

Peter:
&nb= sp=3B
I talked to the owner of this plane shortly after the accid= ent. =3B He was aware of the problem and hired the ferry pilot to take = the plane to have the problem fixed. =3B Evidently there were two cells= in the wing where the vent holes were not functioning and only one of them= was found during the repair. =3B The ferry pilot found the second one = on the return trip.
=0A=
 =3B
The problem with the inaccessible fuel control in t= he Lancair has been know for a long time and=2C like you=2C I opted for ine= rtia reels in addition to the standard seat belts. =3B Yes=2C it is a l= ittle cumbersome but that's the "belt and suspender" approach.
=0A=
 =3B
Too bad we cant require training for new pilots and= new owners.
 =3B
Regards=2C Bill Hogarty


On Mo= n=2C Jun 3=2C 2013 at 11:25 AM=2C PETER WILLIAMS <=3Bpeterpawavi= ation@hotmail.com>=3B wrote:
=0A=
=0A= =0A= =0A=
ACCIDENT INFORMATION IS USEFUL
While my = 4P was being worked on a read about an accident.
=0A=
WHAT HAPPENED

=0A= the pilot = was ferrying the Lancair IV or IVP for the owner=3B he topped the tanks and= did his flight planning
He = ran out of gas short of the intended airport and died in the emergency land= ing. he sh= ould have had enough
=0A= fuel and t= he gages showed fuel available.(and we can assume that according to fuel flow and tim= e=2C he perceived that he still had fuel in the tanks)
=0A=
his head hit the panel

=0A= WHY=

during the build of the wings a passage between por= tions of a tank was not open as per the plans=3B
=0A= it should = have been. thus there was about 14 gallons that was not available from that= tank.

=0A= the pilot = had unhooked his shoulder belt to operate the fuel selector switch mounted = on the floor.

=0A= THE PILOT =

was an experienced Lancair Pilot and an Airl= ine pilot. Many hours and much experience.
=0A=
MY SOLUTION

=0A= 1. =3B= I had inertia reel shoulder belts installed in my plane prior to my first = flight in the plane
=0A= 2. on the = first long trip going south=2C we ran one tank dry
2a. on the trip north we ran the other tank dry
=0A= 3. in both= cases we carefully filled the tanks and learned how much fuel the plane wo= uld hold and
 =3B = =3B =3B =3B that all the fuel was available to the engine. (not jus= t in the tank)
=0A=  =3B&n= bsp=3B =3B =3B i sat on one wing tip while we filled the last bit o= f fuel into the wings. this usually yields an additional
 =3B =3B =3B =3B 1.6 gallons = in the tanksERGO
=
I now = know that my plane can hold 109 gallons in the wing tanks=3B thus i set my = fuel Totalizator at 106 gallons.
=0A=
I am not likely ever to be = as experienced as the pilot of this accident=2C but i can use the informati= on to insulate myself from the problems that he encountered.
=0A= so this is how i have benefited from this accident report=3B sad that a pil= ot was lost and sad for our community=2C =3B a black mark on our airpla= nes

=0A= FINALLY A = SOBERING THOUGHT
<= /font>
(the data is a little old=2C= but significant none the less)
=0A=
as of Jan 2011 the followin= g figures
<= font style=3D"" color=3D"#ac193d" face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Lancair 4=2C 4P &a= mp=3B 4PT =
=0A=
Flying airplanes =3B&nb= sp=3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B = =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B 297
Airplanes destroyed =3B =3B =3B =3B&nbs= p=3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B 56
=0A=
that is 16% of the signed o= ff airplanes being destroyed in a untimely fashion.
=0A=
THE ANSWER

=0A= Training= =2C Training=2C Training
and= reasonable limits of your flying
=0A=  =3B(f= or example: runway lengths=2C VFR ceiling &=3B vis. requirements. Person= al IFR limits)
Annual proficiency flights with a LOBO instructor would be benefici= al
=0A=
fly safe and never stop lea= rning
=0A=
peter



<= /span>
=0A=

= --_a1d8a59f-d2c6-4bd1-aaf2-19c100b24473_--