X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:17:41 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-wg0-f54.google.com ([74.125.82.54] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTPS id 6005696 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:15:30 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.82.54; envelope-from=billhogarty@gmail.com Received: by mail-wg0-f54.google.com with SMTP id fg15so567106wgb.33 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:14:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.9.197 with SMTP id c5mr117993921wjb.20.1357866895781; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:14:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.36.138 with HTTP; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:14:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: X-Original-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:14:55 -0800 X-Original-Message-ID: Subject: Re: [LML] Stalls and more From: "William A. Hogarty" X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b5d4498f9aee804d2f90537 --047d7b5d4498f9aee804d2f90537 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dom: You mention that the only time you get close to a speed associated with a stall is during T/O and the flare during landing and the bit you enjoy is in between at the best speed performance you can get. A word of caution. A high speed stall can bite you in the ass if you dont unload the plane. Fly safe Bill H. On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Dominic V. Crain wrote: > The development of comment on most issues can become positively very > technical as the discussion progresses. > This is another example, but indeed, a worthwhile topic. It helps to gain > knowledge from the experience of those who have it. > Don't remember if Orv and Wil wrote much about it. > Nevertheless, as I recall, most civil aircraft designs from a certified > aspect, should exhibit characteristics which the "average" pilot can cope > with. > Reading the current topic on stalls, with the expertise of contributors, I > am beginning to wonder if Lancairs should be sold to, or owned by, anyone > who is not able to address the mind to the various and compounding forces > associated with a rapid and inadvertent entry into a spin. > As an inadvertent spin is likely to occur close to Mother Earth, we of > "average" ability are not only unlikely to recover, but certainly will not > be able to determine all of the aerodynamic characteristics associated with > the spin. > Now, don't misunderstand me, I read all the inputs to the topic > voraciously, and attempt to draw on the knowledge of those who clearly have > (had) greater exposure than we of "average" ability. > The only time I am anywhere a speed which is associated with a stall is in > transition during take-off, and in the flare during landing. The bit I > enjoy is in between at the best speed performance I can get. > That said, I have done stall testing on two occasions, enough to know what > my 320 exhibits as it approaches the stall. My Lancair also has an aural > stall warning system which the builder designed. > In relation to the Air France A330 condition, and drawing on memory of the > report, it went from cruise to the water in around 3 minutes with a final > forward airspeed of around 60 knots. It is difficult to understand that > none of these pilots did not disregard the EFIS and refer to the basics, > the standby steams, AI, ASI, and ALT. > Even if the steam ASI was inaccurate due icing, the high pitch angle and > unwinding ALT should have been a red flag to lower the nose to the horizon > and firewall the thrust levers. > It is now 24 years since I first flew the A320 and I well recall most of > us transitioning to it wondering "what the hell is it doing", but sitting > there doing nothing was not an option. > By the time I retired ten years ago, I'd worked most of it out. > > Dominic V. Crain > domcrain@tpg.com.au > Phone 03-94161881 > Mobile 0412-359320 > > VH-CZJ > > --047d7b5d4498f9aee804d2f90537 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Dom:

You mention that the = only time you get close to a speed associated with a stall is during T/O an= d the flare during landing and the bit you enjoy is in between at the best = speed performance you can get.

A word of caution. =A0 A high speed stall can bite you = in the ass if you dont unload the plane.

Fly safe<= /div>

Bill H.



On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Dominic V. Crain <domcrain@tpg.com.au> wrote:
The development of comment on most issu= es can become positively very technical as the discussion progresses.
T= his is another example, but indeed, a worthwhile topic. It helps to gain kn= owledge from the experience of those who have it.
Don't remember if Orv and Wil wrote much about it.
Never= theless, as I recall, most civil aircraft designs from a certified aspect, = should exhibit characteristics which the "average" pilot can cope= with.
Reading the current topic on stalls, with the expertise of contributor= s, I am beginning to wonder if Lancairs should be sold to, or owned by, any= one who is not able to address the mind to the various and compounding forc= es associated with a rapid and inadvertent entry into a spin.
As an inadvertent spin is likely to occur close to Mother Earth, we of= "average" ability are not only unlikely to recover, but certainl= y will not be able to determine all of the aerodynamic characteristics asso= ciated with the spin.
Now, don't misunderstand me, I read all the inputs to the topic vo= raciously, and attempt to draw on the knowledge of those who clearly have (= had) greater exposure than we of "average" ability.
The only time I am anywhere a speed which is associated with a stall is in = transition during take-off, and in the flare during landing. The bit I enjo= y is in between at the best speed performance I can get.
That sai= d, I have done stall testing on two occasions, enough to know what my 320 e= xhibits as it approaches the stall. My Lancair also has an aural stall warn= ing system which the builder designed.
In relation to the Air France A330 condition, and drawing on memory of= the report, it went from cruise to the water in around 3 minutes with a fi= nal forward airspeed of around 60 knots. It is difficult to understand that= none of these pilots did not disregard the EFIS and refer to the basics, t= he standby steams, AI, ASI, and ALT.
Even if the steam ASI was inaccurate due icing, the high pitch angle a= nd unwinding ALT should have been a red flag to lower the nose to the horiz= on and firewall the thrust levers.
It is now 24 years since I fir= st flew the A320 and I well recall most of us transitioning to it wondering= "what the hell is it doing", but sitting there doing nothing was= not an option.

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