X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2013 15:39:48 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.66] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6003278 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 09 Jan 2013 13:49:16 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.66; envelope-from=colyncase@earthlink.net DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=TJvhhFUEtBHu2Sx81woAO1WR1XnS5ZW0vYXkx5V/lsjUBz4GSTgBM0NJLRAyAU+R; h=Received:From:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:To:References:Message-Id:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [70.105.250.129] (helo=[192.168.1.34]) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Tt0hf-0001hA-Bg for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 09 Jan 2013 13:48:43 -0500 From: Colyn Case Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-61--654482595 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Stalls & Spins X-Original-Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 13:48:42 -0500 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: <80EC33BE-978C-4DB3-97AC-A3C79A48C053@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-ELNK-Trace: 63d5d3452847f8b1d6dd28457998182d7e972de0d01da940c3e55854fa5f5469479a3519c6cbffc2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 70.105.250.129 --Apple-Mail-61--654482595 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii George, As I read the AOA pro calibration instructions there is no need to = approach stall to complete the calibration. Is the 4000S different? Colyn On Jan 8, 2013, at 2:10 PM, George Wehrung wrote: Skip, Thank you for the video and explanation. I too was a Naval Aviation = Safety Officer, T-34C flight instructor, functional check pilot, and = taught the high and low out-of-control syllabi to new instructors. So although, I am familiar with spins, progressive spins, spirals (had a = few of those because of bad elevator/aileron rigging), high and low = altitude departures I have no interest in spinning our Lancair. I am = interested in slow flighting and learning where and what the stall = indications are for two purposes. The first being to recognize the = initial indications of stall onset and recovery for this airframe. = Secondly, is to calibrate the AOA system as we switched over from the = separate AOA computer to the built in system within the Advanced Flight = Deck 4000S. I need to re-plumb the AOA tubing from the old computer to = the advanced deck, then a calibration flight will be in order. Once = this is done and I have some data I will know the specific envelope to = keep this plane happy. In the mean time I am trying to learn as much as I can about this = airframe from others who may have gone before me and to also have as = accurate a POH as possible since I am gone and can't fly the plane till = spring time. Thanks again, George On Jan 8, 2013, at 8:29 PM, Skip Slater wrote: > George, > Attached is the ES spin video Ron was talking about. When I first = saw it several years ago, I saved it.=20 > The story behind the clip is that a builder hired an ex-Air Force = fighter pilot to do his Phase 1 testing for him. I swapped e-mails with = the pilot after this came out and got the full story. This guy took = testing seriously, mapping out planned maneuvers for each flight, = wearing a helmet and parachute and videotaping every flight. One of the = things he did was to perform a series of stall tests at progressively = further aft CG's, I assume by adding ballast to the back of the plane, = as he always flew alone.. Doing spins was not part of his test plan. = During the stall in the video, his CG was fairly well aft and as you can = see, the plane unexpectedly and abruptly departed to the left. He told = me that when he applied recovery controls, the spin actually tightened = at first but after nearly three turns and considerable loss of altitude, = it did recover. Had this happened at pattern altitude, recovery would = have been impossible. At that point he stopped doing any further stall = testing and he told me that his recommendation was that spins be a = prohibited maneuver in the ES. > I got to do a lot of spins in prop and jet trainers in the Navy and = would never even consider trying on in my ES. I did approaches to = stalls to calibrate my AOA (something I feel should be an essential part = of any experimental's instrument panel), but have not done any since, as = I can't even get close to stall speed now without the aural warning the = AOA generates and would have to ignore it to do so. > I'm with Jeff and LOBO on this subject - I don't recommend = intentional stalls in Lancairs. Because each is built a little = differently, it's probable that each would handle a little differently = at high AOA. And as has been pointed out, the most likely place for a = stall is in the traffic pattern and if you depart controlled flight = there, all the training or practice in the world isn't going to help = you. > Skip Slater > N540ES =20 > -- > For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html --Apple-Mail-61--654482595 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
skipslater@verizon.net> = wrote:

George,
   Attached is the ES = spin video Ron was=20 talking about.  When I first saw it several = years ago,=20 I saved it. 
=
   The story behind the = clip is that a=20 builder hired an ex-Air Force fighter pilot to do his Phase 1 testing = for=20 him.  I swapped e-mails with the pilot after this came = out and=20 got the full story.  This guy took testing seriously, mapping out = planned=20 maneuvers for each flight, wearing a helmet and parachute and = videotaping every=20 flight.  One of the things he did was to perform a series of stall = tests at=20 progressively further aft CG's, I assume by adding ballast to the back = of the=20 plane, as he always flew alone..  Doing spins was not part of his = test=20 plan.  During the stall in the video, his CG was fairly well aft = and as you=20 can see, the plane unexpectedly and abruptly departed to the=20= left.  He told me that when he applied recovery controls,=20 the spin actually tightened at first but after nearly three turns = and=20 considerable loss of altitude, it did recover.  Had this happened = at=20 pattern altitude, recovery would have been impossible.  At that = point he=20 stopped doing any further stall testing and he told me that his = recommendation=20 was that spins be a prohibited maneuver in the ES.
   I got to do a lot of = spins in prop and=20 jet trainers in the Navy and would never even consider trying on in my = ES. =20 I did approaches to stalls to calibrate my AOA (something I feel should = be an=20 essential part of any experimental's instrument panel), but have not = done any=20 since, as I can't even get close to stall speed now without the aural = warning=20 the AOA generates and would have to ignore it to do so.
   I'm with Jeff and LOBO = on this subject=20 - I don't recommend intentional stalls in Lancairs.  Because each = is built=20 a little differently, it's probable that each would handle a little = differently=20 at high AOA.  And as has been pointed out, the most likely place = for a=20 stall is in the traffic pattern and if you depart controlled flight = there, all=20 the training or practice in the world isn't going to help = you.
   Skip = Slater
   = N540ES   =20
<ES spin.mpeg>--
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