X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2013 15:39:48 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-ob0-f178.google.com ([209.85.214.178] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTPS id 6003341 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 09 Jan 2013 14:23:59 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.178; envelope-from=guldi.jim@gmail.com Received: by mail-ob0-f178.google.com with SMTP id eh20so2538317obb.23 for ; Wed, 09 Jan 2013 11:23:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.32.37 with SMTP id f5mr38642627oei.19.1357759405480; Wed, 09 Jan 2013 11:23:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.76.98.41 with HTTP; Wed, 9 Jan 2013 11:23:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: X-Original-Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 14:23:25 -0500 X-Original-Message-ID: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Fwd: [LML] Re: stalls From: Jim Guldi X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8fb200200ddb5e04d2dffffc --e89a8fb200200ddb5e04d2dffffc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 F-86 yes you are and we are glad u are here On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Bill Hogarty wrote: > John > > I experienced the same phenominum in an F 86 way back when. The plane was > usually very honest in ACM. It would fly thru practually any maneuver you > could dream of.....EXCEPT for the one time that it just stopped flying. > Wierd feeling. It just fell for almost 5000 feet. Felt like zero G engine > wide open. Nothing!!! Started flying again on its own luckily before I > ran out of altitude. > Scared the hell out of me. > > I have done stalls in the IV-P. The strakes I added made the stall more > benign and improved the handling but I never fly the plane slow. Ball > ALWAYS centered. Traffic pattern always wide and gentle. Old but no > longer bold...... > > Regards, Bill H > > > > On Jan 9, 2013, at 3:56 AM, John Barrett <2thman1@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I will second Lynn's comments. I flew F8U Crusaders in the 60's. We > never stalled the airplane and were cautioned to stay away from that part > of the envelope. It would take a minimum of 10,000 ft. to recover from a > spin we were told. I departed one once during ACM (air combat maneuvers). > A departure was defined as a high G stall. It was a very weird feeling. > The airplane stopped flying - G force went to zero or maybe a little > negative instantly and felt like the airplane was just floating through the > air. It likely was. I think I was lucky. I neutralized the controls and > fortunately it returned to normal flight in about a second or two. > > It felt a lot like a cat shot off the boat and probably what we trained to > do during that maneuver helped me deal with the departure. > > Let me just say that folks a lot smarter and wiser than most of us have > figured out that some aircraft designs result in sufficiently desirable > performance parameters in certain parts of the flight envelope. These > performance characteristics justify high risk of very bad things happening > to us if we venture into some other parts of the envelope. We would be > well advised to listen to and heed what they tell us about those aircraft. > Stay away from the coffin corners or risk becoming a statistic. > > If you can't figure out how to fly the airplane without going dangerously > near the stall in normal flight then you likely are not a safe pilot to > operate a IVP. > > Regards, > John Barrett > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Jan 7, 2013, at 2:23 PM, "Lynn Farnsworth" > wrote: > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *From:* Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] > *On Behalf Of *Wolfgang > *Sent:* Monday, January 07, 2013 1:26 PM > *To:* lml@lancaironline.net > *Subject:* [LML] Re: stalls**** > > ** ** > > The bad part about this "stall" discussion is that most people want to > stay away from stalls all together. - - - That's ridiculous **** > > If you want to call yourself a proficient pilot, you must be able to react > to most any circumstance, intended or not.**** > > ** ** > > Wolfgang,**** > > ** ** > > I flew F-100s, F-105s, and F-4s. I was a very proficient pilot in all > three aircraft. We DIN NOT stall them and we had ejections seats and > parachutes. Your above statement is, IMO, ridiculous.**** > > ** ** > > Lynn Farnsworth**** > > Super Legacy**** > > TSIO-550 Powered**** > > Race #44**** > > -- "There are no traffic jams along the extra mile" - Roger Staubach ..jim guldi CFI --e89a8fb200200ddb5e04d2dffffc Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable F-86 yes you are and we are glad u are here

On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Bill Hogarty <billhogarty@gmail.com= > wrote:
John

I experienced the same phenominum in an F 86 way back when.= =A0The plane was usually very honest in ACM. =A0It would fly thru practual= ly any maneuver you could dream of.....EXCEPT for the one time that it just= stopped flying. =A0Wierd feeling. =A0It just fell for almost 5000 feet. Fe= lt like zero G engine wide open. =A0Nothing!!! =A0 Started flying again on = its own luckily before I ran out of altitude.
Scared the hell out of me.=A0

I have done sta= lls in the IV-P. =A0The strakes I added made the stall more benign and impr= oved the handling but I never fly the plane slow. Ball ALWAYS centered. =A0= Traffic pattern always wide and gentle. =A0 Old but no longer bold...... = =A0

Regards, Bill H



On Jan 9, 2013, at 3:56 AM, John Barrett <2thman1@gmail.com> w= rote:



I will second Lynn's comments. =A0I flew=A0F8U Crusaders in the = 60's. =A0We never stalled the airplane and were cautioned to stay away = from that part of the envelope. =A0 It would take a minimum of 10,000 ft. t= o recover from a spin we were told. =A0I departed one once =A0during ACM (a= ir combat maneuvers). =A0A departure was defined as a high G stall. =A0It w= as a very weird feeling. =A0The airplane stopped flying - G force went to z= ero or maybe a little negative instantly and felt like the airplane was jus= t floating through the air. =A0It likely was. =A0I think I was lucky. =A0I = neutralized the controls and fortunately it returned to normal flight in ab= out a second or two.

It felt a lot like a cat shot off the boat and probably= what we trained to do during that maneuver helped me deal with the departu= re.

Let me just say that folks a lot smarter and w= iser than most of us have figured out that some aircraft designs result in = sufficiently desirable performance parameters in certain parts of the fligh= t envelope. =A0These performance characteristics justify high risk of very = bad things happening to us if we venture into some other parts of the envel= ope. =A0We would be well advised to listen to and heed what they tell us ab= out those aircraft. =A0Stay away from the coffin corners or risk becoming a= statistic. =A0

If you can't figure out how to fly the airplane wit= hout going dangerously near the stall in normal flight then you likely are = not a safe pilot to operate a IVP. =A0

Regards,
John Barrett


Sent from my iPad


On Jan 7, 2013, at 2:23 PM, "Lynn Farnsworth" = <farnsworth@= charter.net> wrote:

=A0

=A0

From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Wolfgang<= br> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 1:26 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: stalls

=A0

The=A0bad part = about this "stall" discussion is that most people want to stay aw= ay from stalls all together. - - - That's ridiculous=A0

If you want to call yourself a= proficient pilot, you must be able to react to most any circumstance, inte= nded or not.

=A0<= /p>

Wolfgang,

=A0<= /p>

I flew F-100s, F-105s,= and F-4s. I was a very proficient pilot in all three aircraft. We DIN NOT = stall them and we had ejections seats and parachutes. Your above statement = is, IMO, ridiculous.

=A0<= /p>

Lynn Farnsworth=

Super Legacy

TSIO-550 Powe= red

Race #44




-= -

"There are no traffic jams along the extra mile" = - Roger Staubach



..jim guldi CFI


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