X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2013 13:17:22 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-pb0-f44.google.com ([209.85.160.44] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTPS id 6003193 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 09 Jan 2013 13:15:31 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.44; envelope-from=billhogarty@gmail.com Received: by mail-pb0-f44.google.com with SMTP id uo1so1105277pbc.3 for ; Wed, 09 Jan 2013 10:14:57 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.66.73.225 with SMTP id o1mr192912875pav.70.1357755297659; Wed, 09 Jan 2013 10:14:57 -0800 (PST) X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.5.150] (ip-64-134-229-74.public.wayport.net. [64.134.229.74]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id na7sm42009699pbc.48.2013.01.09.10.14.54 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 09 Jan 2013 10:14:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [LML] Fwd: [LML] Re: stalls References: From: Bill Hogarty Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-2A322529-8E7C-475D-99B1-C53B7FEB431E X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B206) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Message-Id: X-Original-Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 10:14:51 -0800 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) --Apple-Mail-2A322529-8E7C-475D-99B1-C53B7FEB431E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii John I experienced the same phenominum in an F 86 way back when. The plane was u= sually very honest in ACM. It would fly thru practually any maneuver you co= uld dream of.....EXCEPT for the one time that it just stopped flying. Wierd= feeling. It just fell for almost 5000 feet. Felt like zero G engine wide o= pen. Nothing!!! Started flying again on its own luckily before I ran out o= f altitude. Scared the hell out of me.=20 I have done stalls in the IV-P. The strakes I added made the stall more ben= ign and improved the handling but I never fly the plane slow. Ball ALWAYS ce= ntered. Traffic pattern always wide and gentle. Old but no longer bold...= ... =20 Regards, Bill H On Jan 9, 2013, at 3:56 AM, John Barrett <2thman1@gmail.com> wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> I will second Lynn's comments. I flew F8U Crusaders in the 60's. We nev= er stalled the airplane and were cautioned to stay away from that part of th= e envelope. It would take a minimum of 10,000 ft. to recover from a spin w= e were told. I departed one once during ACM (air combat maneuvers). A dep= arture was defined as a high G stall. It was a very weird feeling. The air= plane stopped flying - G force went to zero or maybe a little negative insta= ntly and felt like the airplane was just floating through the air. It likel= y was. I think I was lucky. I neutralized the controls and fortunately it r= eturned to normal flight in about a second or two. >>=20 >> It felt a lot like a cat shot off the boat and probably what we trained t= o do during that maneuver helped me deal with the departure. >>=20 >> Let me just say that folks a lot smarter and wiser than most of us have f= igured out that some aircraft designs result in sufficiently desirable perfo= rmance parameters in certain parts of the flight envelope. These performanc= e characteristics justify high risk of very bad things happening to us if we= venture into some other parts of the envelope. We would be well advised to= listen to and heed what they tell us about those aircraft. Stay away from t= he coffin corners or risk becoming a statistic. =20 >>=20 >> If you can't figure out how to fly the airplane without going dangerously= near the stall in normal flight then you likely are not a safe pilot to ope= rate a IVP. =20 >>=20 >> Regards, >> John Barrett >>=20 >>=20 >> Sent from my iPad >>=20 >>=20 >> On Jan 7, 2013, at 2:23 PM, "Lynn Farnsworth" wr= ote: >>=20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of W= olfgang >>> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 1:26 PM >>> To: lml@lancaironline.net >>> Subject: [LML] Re: stalls >>> =20 >>> The bad part about this "stall" discussion is that most people want to s= tay away from stalls all together. - - - That's ridiculous=20 >>> If you want to call yourself a proficient pilot, you must be able to rea= ct to most any circumstance, intended or not. >>> =20 >>> Wolfgang, >>> =20 >>> I flew F-100s, F-105s, and F-4s. I was a very proficient pilot in all th= ree aircraft. We DIN NOT stall them and we had ejections seats and parachute= s. Your above statement is, IMO, ridiculous. >>> =20 >>> Lynn Farnsworth >>> Super Legacy >>> TSIO-550 Powered >>> Race #44 --Apple-Mail-2A322529-8E7C-475D-99B1-C53B7FEB431E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
John

<= div>I experienced the same phenominum in an F 86 way back when.  The pl= ane was usually very honest in ACM.  It would fly thru practually any m= aneuver you could dream of.....EXCEPT for the one time that it just stopped f= lying.  Wierd feeling.  It just fell for almost 5000 feet. Felt li= ke zero G engine wide open.  Nothing!!!   Started flying again on i= ts own luckily before I ran out of altitude.
Scared the hell out o= f me. 

I have done stalls in the IV-P.  T= he strakes I added made the stall more benign and improved the handling but I= never fly the plane slow. Ball ALWAYS centered.  Traffic pattern alway= s wide and gentle.   Old but no longer bold......  

=
Regards, Bill H



On Jan 9, 20= 13, at 3:56 AM, John Barrett <2thman= 1@gmail.com> wrote:



I will second Lynn's comments.  I flew&nbs= p;F8U Crusaders in the 60's.  We never stalled the airplane and were ca= utioned to stay away from that part of the envelope.   It would take a m= inimum of 10,000 ft. to recover from a spin we were told.  I departed o= ne once  during ACM (air combat maneuvers).  A departure was defin= ed as a high G stall.  It was a very weird feeling.  The airplane s= topped flying - G force went to zero or maybe a little negative instantly an= d felt like the airplane was just floating through the air.  It likely w= as.  I think I was lucky.  I neutralized the controls and fortunat= ely it returned to normal flight in about a second or two.

It felt a lot like a cat shot off the boat and probably what we trai= ned to do during that maneuver helped me deal with the departure.
=
Let me just say that folks a lot smarter and wiser than most o= f us have figured out that some aircraft designs result in sufficiently desi= rable performance parameters in certain parts of the flight envelope.  = These performance characteristics justify high risk of very bad things happe= ning to us if we venture into some other parts of the envelope.  We wou= ld be well advised to listen to and heed what they tell us about those aircr= aft.  Stay away from the coffin corners or risk becoming a statistic. &= nbsp;

If you can't figure out how to fly the airpla= ne without going dangerously near the stall in normal flight then you likely= are not a safe pilot to operate a IVP.  

Rega= rds,
John Barrett


Sent from my iPad

On Jan 7, 2013, at 2:23 PM, "Lynn Farnsworth" &l= t;farnsworth@charter.net> w= rote:

 

 

From: Lancair Ma= iling List [mailto:lml@lancaironlin= e.net] On Behalf Of Wolfgang
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2= 013 1:26 PM
To: lml@lanca= ironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: stalls

 

The bad part about this "stall" discussion is that most= people want to stay away from stalls all together. - - - That's ridiculous&= nbsp;

If yo= u want to call yourself a proficient pilot, you must be able to react to mos= t any circumstance, intended or not.

&nb= sp;

Wolfgan= g,

 

I f= lew F-100s, F-105s, and F-4s. I was a very proficient pilot in all three air= craft. We DIN NOT stall them and we had ejections seats and parachutes. Your= above statement is, IMO, ridiculous.

 

Lynn Farnsworth

Super Legacy

TSIO-550 Powered

Race #44

= --Apple-Mail-2A322529-8E7C-475D-99B1-C53B7FEB431E--