X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2013 12:35:19 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nk11p08mm-asmtp001.mac.com ([17.158.58.246] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6002982 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 09 Jan 2013 11:54:36 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=17.158.58.246; envelope-from=gw5@me.com MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_khe3O2B8G2NgtNhKg6vPWw)" Received: from [10.55.210.255] (216-147-135-217.globalsat.net [216.147.135.217]) by nk11p08mm-asmtp001.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-26.01(7.0.4.26.0) 64bit (built Jul 13 2012)) with ESMTPSA id <0MGD00MQEAXFNJ90@nk11p08mm-asmtp001.mac.com> for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 09 Jan 2013 16:53:55 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.9.8327,1.0.431,0.0.0000 definitions=2013-01-09_07:2013-01-09,2013-01-09,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=6.0.2-1203120001 definitions=main-1301090130 From: George Wehrung X-Original-Message-id: Subject: Re: [LML] Stalls & Spins X-Original-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2013 21:23:39 +0430 References: X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-reply-to: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) --Boundary_(ID_khe3O2B8G2NgtNhKg6vPWw) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Jim, It's about a 2.5 mb file that is meant to play on quicktime (Apple = Program) or VLC player will also play it. If you don't receive it let me know and I can email it you since it was = emailed to me from Skip Slater. George On Jan 9, 2013, at 4:26 PM, Jim Scales wrote: > Guys, >=20 > How do I find the ES video? I am unable to do anything with the ES = spin.mpeg. Have no idea how to make the video play. Thanks. >=20 > Jim >=20 > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 14:10:46 -0500 > From: gw5@me.com > Subject: [LML] Re: Stalls & Spins >=20 > Skip, >=20 > Thank you for the video and explanation. I too was a Naval Aviation = Safety Officer, T-34C flight instructor, functional check pilot, and = taught the high and low out-of-control syllabi to new instructors. >=20 > So although, I am familiar with spins, progressive spins, spirals (had = a few of those because of bad elevator/aileron rigging), high and low = altitude departures I have no interest in spinning our Lancair. I am = interested in slow flighting and learning where and what the stall = indications are for two purposes. The first being to recognize the = initial indications of stall onset and recovery for this airframe. = Secondly, is to calibrate the AOA system as we switched over from the = separate AOA computer to the built in system within the Advanced Flight = Deck 4000S. I need to re-plumb the AOA tubing from the old computer to = the advanced deck, then a calibration flight will be in order. Once = this is done and I have some data I will know the specific envelope to = keep this plane happy. >=20 > In the mean time I am trying to learn as much as I can about this = airframe from others who may have gone before me and to also have as = accurate a POH as possible since I am gone and can't fly the plane till = spring time. >=20 > Thanks again, >=20 > George >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Jan 8, 2013, at 8:29 PM, Skip Slater = wrote: >=20 > George, > Attached is the ES spin video Ron was talking about. When I first = saw it several years ago, I saved it.=20 > The story behind the clip is that a builder hired an ex-Air Force = fighter pilot to do his Phase 1 testing for him. I swapped e-mails with = the pilot after this came out and got the full story. This guy took = testing seriously, mapping out planned maneuvers for each flight, = wearing a helmet and parachute and videotaping every flight. One of the = things he did was to perform a series of stall tests at progressively = further aft CG's, I assume by adding ballast to the back of the plane, = as he always flew alone.. Doing spins was not part of his test plan. = During the stall in the video, his CG was fairly well aft and as you can = see, the plane unexpectedly and abruptly departed to the left. He told = me that when he applied recovery controls, the spin actually tightened = at first but after nearly three turns and considerable loss of altitude, = it did recover. Had this happened at pattern altitude, recovery would = have been impossible. At that point he stopped doing any further stall = testing and he told me that his recommendation was that spins be a = prohibited maneuver in the ES. > I got to do a lot of spins in prop and jet trainers in the Navy and = would never even consider trying on in my ES. I did approaches to = stalls to calibrate my AOA (something I feel should be an essential part = of any experimental's instrument panel), but have not done any since, as = I can't even get close to stall speed now without the aural warning the = AOA generates and would have to ignore it to do so. > I'm with Jeff and LOBO on this subject - I don't recommend = intentional stalls in Lancairs. Because each is built a little = differently, it's probable that each would handle a little differently = at high AOA. And as has been pointed out, the most likely place for a = stall is in the traffic pattern and if you depart controlled flight = there, all the training or practice in the world isn't going to help = you. > Skip Slater > N540ES =20 > -- > For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html >=20 >=20 --Boundary_(ID_khe3O2B8G2NgtNhKg6vPWw) Content-type: text/html; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Jim,

It's = about a 2.5 mb file that is meant to play on quicktime (Apple Program) = or VLC player will also play it.

If you don't = receive it let me know and I can email it you since it was emailed to me = from Skip = Slater.

George




On Jan 9, 2013, at 4:26 PM, Jim = Scales <joscales98@hotmail.com> = wrote:

Guys,

How do I find the ES video?  I = am unable to do anything with the ES spin.mpeg.  Have no idea = how to make the video play. =  Thanks.

Jim

To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: = Tue, 8 Jan 2013 14:10:46 -0500
From: gw5@me.com
Subject: [LML] Re: Stalls = & Spins

Skip,

Thank you for the video and = explanation. I too was a Naval Aviation Safety Officer, T-34C flight = instructor, functional check pilot, and taught the high and low = out-of-control syllabi to new instructors.

So = although, I am familiar with spins, progressive spins, spirals (had a = few of those because of bad elevator/aileron rigging), high and low = altitude departures I have no interest in spinning our Lancair.  I = am interested in slow flighting and learning where and what the stall = indications are for two purposes.  The first being to recognize the = initial indications of stall onset and recovery for this airframe. =  Secondly, is to calibrate the AOA system as we switched over from = the separate AOA computer to the built in system within the Advanced = Flight Deck 4000S.  I need to re-plumb the AOA tubing from the old = computer to the advanced deck, then a calibration flight will be in = order.  Once this is done and I have some data I will know the = specific envelope to keep this plane happy.

In = the mean time I am trying to learn as much as I can about this airframe = from others who may have gone before me and to also have as accurate a = POH as possible since I am gone and can't fly the plane till spring = time.

Thanks = again,

George


=




On Jan = 8, 2013, at 8:29 PM, Skip Slater <skipslater@verizon.net> = wrote:

George,
   Attached is the ES spin video Ron was = talking about.  When I first saw it several = years ago, I saved it. 
   The story behind the clip is that a builder = hired an ex-Air Force fighter pilot to do his Phase 1 testing for = him.  I swapped e-mails with the pilot after this came = out and got the full story.  This guy took testing seriously, = mapping out planned maneuvers for each flight, wearing a helmet and = parachute and videotaping every flight.  One of the things he did = was to perform a series of stall tests at progressively further aft = CG's, I assume by adding ballast to the back of the plane, as he always = flew alone..  Doing spins was not part of his test plan.  = During the stall in the video, his CG was fairly well aft and as you can = see, the plane unexpectedly and abruptly departed to the = left.  He told me that when he applied recovery controls, = the spin actually tightened at first but after nearly three turns = and considerable loss of altitude, it did recover.  Had this = happened at pattern altitude, recovery would have been impossible.  = At that point he stopped doing any further stall testing and he told me = that his recommendation was that spins be a prohibited maneuver in the = ES.
   I got = to do a lot of spins in prop and jet trainers in the Navy and would = never even consider trying on in my ES.  I did approaches to stalls = to calibrate my AOA (something I feel should be an essential part of any = experimental's instrument panel), but have not done any since, as I = can't even get close to stall speed now without the aural warning the = AOA generates and would have to ignore it to do = so.
   I'm = with Jeff and LOBO on this subject - I don't recommend intentional = stalls in Lancairs.  Because each is built a little differently, = it's probable that each would handle a little differently at high = AOA.  And as has been pointed out, the most likely place for a = stall is in the traffic pattern and if you depart controlled flight = there, all the training or practice in the world isn't going to = help you.
   = Skip Slater
   = N540ES   
<ES = spin.mpeg>--
For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html=



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