X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2013 06:56:49 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from snt0-omc3-s27.snt0.hotmail.com ([65.55.90.166] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6001882 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 21:13:11 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.55.90.166; envelope-from=joscales98@hotmail.com Received: from SNT135-W45 ([65.55.90.136]) by snt0-omc3-s27.snt0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 8 Jan 2013 18:12:36 -0800 X-EIP: [hMSSwZdQzigwUkQxUfaPcjFnq8SWA2Nm] X-Originating-Email: [joscales98@hotmail.com] X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: joscales98@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_a38734bb-568c-471d-90c8-e788cd2fa23f_" From: Jim Scales X-Original-To: Lancair List Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Stalls & Spins X-Original-Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 20:12:35 -0600 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jan 2013 02:12:36.0016 (UTC) FILETIME=[CAA1B300:01CDEE0E] --_a38734bb-568c-471d-90c8-e788cd2fa23f_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Guys=2C How do I find the ES video? I am unable to do anything with the ES spin.mp= eg. Have no idea how to make the video play. Thanks. Jim To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue=2C 8 Jan 2013 14:10:46 -0500 From: gw5@me.com Subject: [LML] Re: Stalls & Spins Skip=2C Thank you for the video and explanation. I too was a Naval Aviation Safety = Officer=2C T-34C flight instructor=2C functional check pilot=2C and taught = the high and low out-of-control syllabi to new instructors. So although=2C I am familiar with spins=2C progressive spins=2C spirals (ha= d a few of those because of bad elevator/aileron rigging)=2C high and low a= ltitude departures I have no interest in spinning our Lancair. I am intere= sted in slow flighting and learning where and what the stall indications ar= e for two purposes. The first being to recognize the initial indications o= f stall onset and recovery for this airframe. Secondly=2C is to calibrate = the AOA system as we switched over from the separate AOA computer to the bu= ilt in system within the Advanced Flight Deck 4000S. I need to re-plumb th= e AOA tubing from the old computer to the advanced deck=2C then a calibrati= on flight will be in order. Once this is done and I have some data I will = know the specific envelope to keep this plane happy. In the mean time I am trying to learn as much as I can about this airframe = from others who may have gone before me and to also have as accurate a POH = as possible since I am gone and can't fly the plane till spring time. Thanks again=2C George On Jan 8=2C 2013=2C at 8:29 PM=2C Skip Slater wrot= e: George=2C Attached is the ES spin video Ron was=20 talking about. When I first saw it several years ago=2C=20 I saved it.=20 The story behind the clip is that a=20 builder hired an ex-Air Force fighter pilot to do his Phase 1 testing for=20 him. I swapped e-mails with the pilot after this came out and=20 got the full story. This guy took testing seriously=2C mapping out planned= =20 maneuvers for each flight=2C wearing a helmet and parachute and videotaping= every=20 flight. One of the things he did was to perform a series of stall tests at= =20 progressively further aft CG's=2C I assume by adding ballast to the back of= the=20 plane=2C as he always flew alone.. Doing spins was not part of his test=20 plan. During the stall in the video=2C his CG was fairly well aft and as y= ou=20 can see=2C the plane unexpectedly and abruptly departed to the=20 left. He told me that when he applied recovery controls=2C=20 the spin actually tightened at first but after nearly three turns and=20 considerable loss of altitude=2C it did recover. Had this happened at=20 pattern altitude=2C recovery would have been impossible. At that point he= =20 stopped doing any further stall testing and he told me that his recommendat= ion=20 was that spins be a prohibited maneuver in the ES. I got to do a lot of spins in prop and=20 jet trainers in the Navy and would never even consider trying on in my ES. = =20 I did approaches to stalls to calibrate my AOA (something I feel should be = an=20 essential part of any experimental's instrument panel)=2C but have not done= any=20 since=2C as I can't even get close to stall speed now without the aural war= ning=20 the AOA generates and would have to ignore it to do so. I'm with Jeff and LOBO on this subject=20 - I don't recommend intentional stalls in Lancairs. Because each is built= =20 a little differently=2C it's probable that each would handle a little diffe= rently=20 at high AOA. And as has been pointed out=2C the most likely place for a=20 stall is in the traffic pattern and if you depart controlled flight there= =2C all=20 the training or practice in the world isn't going to help you. Skip Slater N540ES =20 -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html = --_a38734bb-568c-471d-90c8-e788cd2fa23f_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Guys=2C

How do I find the ES video?  =3BI am unable = to do anything with the =3BES spin.mpeg.  =3BHave no idea how to ma= ke the video play.  =3BThanks.

Jim

To: lml@lanc= aironline.net
Date: Tue=2C 8 Jan 2013 14:10:46 -0500
From: gw5@me.com=
Subject: [LML] Re: Stalls &=3B Spins

Skip=2C

Thank you for the video and explanation. I too was a Naval Aviation Safe= ty Officer=2C T-34C flight instructor=2C functional check pilot=2C and taug= ht the high and low out-of-control syllabi to new instructors.
So although=2C I am familiar with spins=2C progressive spins= =2C spirals (had a few of those because of bad elevator/aileron rigging)=2C= high and low altitude departures I have no interest in spinning our Lancai= r.  =3BI am interested in slow flighting and learning where and what th= e stall indications are for two purposes.  =3BThe first being to recogn= ize the initial indications of stall onset and recovery for this airframe. =  =3BSecondly=2C is to calibrate the AOA system as we switched over from= the separate AOA computer to the built in system within the Advanced Fligh= t Deck 4000S.  =3BI need to re-plumb the AOA tubing from the old comput= er to the advanced deck=2C then a calibration flight will be in order. &nbs= p=3BOnce this is done and I have some data I will know the specific envelop= e to keep this plane happy.

In the mean time I am = trying to learn as much as I can about this airframe from others who may ha= ve gone before me and to also have as accurate a POH as possible since I am= gone and can't fly the plane till spring time.

Th= anks again=2C

George


=




On Ja= n 8=2C 2013=2C at 8:29 PM=2C Skip Slater <=3Bskipslater@verizon.net>=3B wrote:

George=2C
 =3B =3B Attached is the ES sp= in video Ron was=20 talking about. =3B =3BWhen I first saw it =3Bseveral years = =3Bago=2C=20 I =3Bsaved it. =3B
 =3B =3B The story behind the = clip is that a=20 builder hired an ex-Air Force fighter pilot to do his Phase 1 testing for=20 him. =3B I swapped e-mails with =3Bthe pilot =3Bafter this came= out and=20 got the full story. =3B This guy took testing seriously=2C mapping out = planned=20 maneuvers for each flight=2C wearing a helmet and parachute and videotaping= every=20 flight. =3B One of the things he did was to perform a series of stall t= ests at=20 progressively further aft CG's=2C I assume by adding ballast to the back of= the=20 plane=2C as he always flew alone.. =3B Doing spins was not part of his = test=20 plan. =3B During the stall in the video=2C his CG was fairly well aft a= nd as you=20 can see=2C the =3Bplane unexpectedly and abruptly =3Bdeparted to th= e=20 left. =3B He told me that when he applied =3Brecovery controls=2C=20 the =3Bspin actually tightened at first but after nearly three turns an= d=20 considerable loss of altitude=2C it did recover. =3B Had this happened = at=20 pattern altitude=2C recovery would have been impossible. =3B At that po= int he=20 stopped doing any further stall testing and he told me that his recommendat= ion=20 was that spins be a prohibited maneuver in the ES.
 =3B =3B I got to do a lot of = spins in prop and=20 jet trainers in the Navy and would never even consider trying on in my ES.&= nbsp=3B=20 I did approaches to stalls to calibrate my AOA (something I feel should be = an=20 essential part of any experimental's instrument panel)=2C but have not done= any=20 since=2C as I can't even get close to stall speed now without the aural war= ning=20 the AOA generates and would have to ignore it to do so.
 =3B =3B I'm with Jeff and LOB= O on this subject=20 - I don't recommend intentional stalls in Lancairs. =3B Because each is= built=20 a little differently=2C it's probable that each would handle a little diffe= rently=20 at high AOA. =3B And as has been pointed out=2C the most likely place f= or a=20 stall is in the traffic pattern and if you depart controlled flight there= =2C all=20 the training or practice =3Bin the world isn't going to help you.
 =3B =3B Skip Slater
 =3B =3B N540ES =3B = =3B =3B=20
<=3BES spin.mpeg>=3B--
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