X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2013 14:20:57 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from qmta08.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.80] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 5997924 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 11:29:25 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.62.80; envelope-from=jmorgan1023@comcast.net Received: from omta10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.28]) by qmta08.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id kgBt1k0020cZkys58gUqXD; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 16:28:50 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.107] ([72.184.120.249]) by omta10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id kgUV1k00l5Nx1kg3WgUbUF; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 16:28:45 +0000 From: Jack Morgan Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DDD73488-E50B-401A-BDFF-DBC7C2BB8E72" Subject: Re: lml Stalls X-Original-Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 11:28:28 -0500 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List References: X-Original-Message-Id: <47EA3785-B9AE-41B5-90F5-CA4472EAC87D@comcast.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) --Apple-Mail=_DDD73488-E50B-401A-BDFF-DBC7C2BB8E72 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Charley, All good on your comments. For those who interpreted my remarks as = stating that all high performance aircraft (including the IV) are = untested for deep stalls or slow flight please take the below to heart. = The IV has had similar testing. The point I was trying to make related to purposely doing deep stalls as = part of an ongoing training syllabus. Deep stalls in high performance = aircraft can easily lead to a roll that goes past wings vertical. Most = pilots I have introduced to aerobatics initially get disoriented when = the wings go past vertical and instinctively pull rather than relax = pressure or push which insures a spin. As has been clearly stated in the = list by Charlie K ,LOBO, and others...... slow flight and stall onset = are included in a proper training syllabus. Aerobatic airplanes are in varying degrees a pleasure to fly from zero = airspeed on up. The entire envelope can be experienced and precision can = be achieved throughout which is part of the reward. High performance = aircraft generally don't offer a rewarding feel or precision response = when stalled which is an additional reason to avoid deep stalls as each = one is an adventure. Hope this clears the fog a bit. Jack Morgan > From: Charles Brown > Subject: Re: [LML] Stalls > Date: January 5, 2013 11:19:58 AM EST > To: lml@lancaironline.net >=20 >=20 > Jack, >=20 > On the contrary, all airliners are designed to FAR Part 25 and if you = google FAR 25.201 (stall demonstration) and 25.203 (stall = characteristics) you will find that they have to be designed and = demonstrated to stall tamely, clean and dirty, straight ahead and in 30 = deg bank. I've done stalls in a 737-300 during flight test at Boeing, = and it's tame. =20 >=20 > Furthermore, airliners and certainly the Legacy are designed to go = slow as well as fast, through the use of slotted flaps (and, on = airliners, leading edge slats). It's no coincidence that the stall = speed of a Legacy is 59kt, Greg Cole went to some trouble to design = those beautiful, highly effective slotted, cambered flaps and we pay a = cruise speed penalty for those big ugly flap hinge brackets. But with = stall speed below 70kt, you can run your instrument approach at 90kt and = use the lowest minimums (Cat A) on the chart. >=20 > What gives, guys? Forget the inadvertant stall and let's suppose your = engine quits over rocky or forested terrain. The best available open = area is too short but every knot you can peel off your approach speed = increases your chance of survival. Knowing and trusting your plane down = to Vstall could easily save your life. >=20 > Charley >=20 > On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:09 AM, Jack Morgan wrote: >=20 > Following the below reasoning.... all of the current swept wing = airliners and business jets have a problem with "very bad design"!!! I = hope all the Lancair drivers out there will ignore those who wish that = an airplane could be designed to go really fast and really slow in the = same design. Particularly the IV needs to be flown with the respect that = a high performance airplane demands. It is well known how to handle high = performance aircraft and doing deep stalls is not on that list. LOBO is = your best source of what our best practices are based on experience = gained to date for all the Lancair designs. >=20 > If you want to improve your chances of getting out of a deep stall in = a IV go get a hundred hours of aerobatic training. That will also = convince you not to stall a IV in the first place! >=20 > Jack Morgan >=20 --Apple-Mail=_DDD73488-E50B-401A-BDFF-DBC7C2BB8E72 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Charles Brown = <Subject: Re: [LML] = Stalls
Date: January 5, 2013 = 11:19:58 AM EST

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