George,
Thank you and welcome aboard. LOBO has worked very hard these past four years to improve the Lancair safety stats. We have been meeting with FAA officials exploring different options including getting some relief for 91.319. We have also been meeting with the insurance industry to be able to get and keep insurance. We will keep up our efforts in this regard.
We are also asking Lancair pilots to do the right thing and fly responsibly. Stay current and proficient, take recurrent training, stay up to date on the issues, don't be in a rush to get someplace, don't treat these machines as big boy toys.
As to performance data, sometimes someone else will have bits and pieces-- maybe Robert Simon or Tim Ong. Otherwise you might just have to bite the bullet and collect some data. Lancair may have an updated poh for your aircraft-- worth a call to Kim.
There are composite experts on this forum -- but to my knowledge, eglass and carbon fiber have infinite fatigue life.
Best regards,
Jeff Edwards
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 6, 2013, at 7:34 AM, George Wehrung < gw5@me.com> wrote: Jeff,
I have been reading a lot of your comments including the stall debate/argument. Your sage advice has lead me to join LOBO.
My wife and I are buying a 2009 Super ES that I have been flying in since 2010 as a CFII, partner and now buyer since 2010.
I also read the white paper that is on the web page discussing the accident history of the Lancairs and it caused me to take notice. I am in the less than 100 hour category. However, I also fit in the ATP/CFII/Military (I fly professionally around the world for a living) experience pie wedge but it doesn't mean that I am not cautious when I fly the Grey Lady.
For one, I am very new and inexperienced in the experimental world. I am not used to not having a complete performance planning section for takeoff, climb, enroute, and landing data nor stall numbers for our airplane. The unknown makes me nervous.
Two, I know very little about lifetime fatigue issues of E-Glass, fiber glass, or other composite materials. But I love our airplane and the people we have met. My wife and I also became lifetime members of EAA.
We will be moving our airplane from CA to NC this summer and if I am in country I hope to attend the Lancair Fly-In.
I also hope that once you all process my membership application I will have access to more ES data on your website. I am in the process of revising our POH during my time off here in Afghanistan. But the best data I can find is a POH for N85WP, well written but references Columbia 350 performance data. Did Lancair ever publish an electronic version of their original POH?
One thing I would like to push for is a break in insurance rates for the ES because of its low accident rate, non pressurized, fixed gear, and non-turbo status?
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
George
Sent from my iPad
John,
Great questions.
First-- how much does your aircraft weigh empty? IVP's are heavier than IV's, naturally and have higher landing speeds.
Speaking from my experience and LOBO's flight training recommendations, 3000 feet of level paved runway in good dry condition with no obstacles in the approach/departure path is the absolute minimum for an experienced LIVP pilot with a proven aircraft.
My LIVP would typically use 2000 feet to get off the ground and 2000 feet of stopping distance on the ground.
For landing, on a 3000 foot runway with 2000 feet to stop means obviously you must be very good at putting the aircraft exactly on the aimpoint. The IVP typically crosses the threshold at 100 KIAS. With no wind at sea level that is approximately 100 KTAS and 100 KGS. If you are spotting a touchdown 500 feet down the runway it means you have about 3.2 seconds from threshold to touchdown. If you are a little fast or a little high and over shoot your touchdown spot you are chewing up runway at about 150 feet per second. So you have three seconds from passing that chosen spot to the point that if you put it on the runway you will not be able to stop before going off the end. Rain, turbulence, etc. Forget it.
For folks in the Phase I period I urge you to use 5000 feet or more of runway. You have spent many years and thousands of dollars building it now is not the time to get cheap. When you are at that 5000 foot runway put a marker at 3000 feet and see how many times you go past it on landing or taking off. I had a client years ago that wanted to use a 2500 foot runway. We trained at a 5000 foot runway with a midfield taxiway. He could never get it stopped in 2500 feet. Never. Never, Never.
BTW I had this same conversation six months ago with Fairley Gooch, a retired Delta captain/ former military pilot. He chose to ignore my advice and LOBO's advice. May he rest in peace.
Best regards,
Jeff
The advice I’m looking for centers around the fact that our runway is 3,000 feet
long, certainly more than adequate for this airplane but not by a lot. The
first flight after reinstallation will be a test flight with several different
concerns -----Original Message-----
From: John Barrett < jbarrett@carbinge.com>
To: lml < lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, Dec 15, 2012 12:56 pm
Subject: [LML] Getting back into the air
My Lancair IVP after 55 hours of total flight time is having an engine overhaul (it was a “new engine” to start with from Performance Engines – I’ll tell that story later) and I expect to get the engine back from Barrett in Tulsa in January or early February. It will take a while to get the engine back on – all the other upgrades and fixes completed, taxi tests etc etc and so I expect to be ready to get airborne again in the spring or early summer.
I have about 60 hours of personal IVP time – 50 of them in my airplane. I am hangared at 0S9, Port Townsend International Airport in Washington State.
The advice I’m looking for centers around the fact that our runway is 3,000 feet long, certainly more than adequate for this airplane but not by a lot. The first flight after reinstallation will be a test flight with several different concerns.
1. Although I have much confidence in my decision to have Barrett overhaul the engine, it’s still a break in flight and carries more risk than normal for that first takeoff.
2. Because I am still a low time LIV driver and I will have had almost 6 months of rust developing in my IVP skills, that will be a factor
3. Because the airport environment is not conducive to emergency landing after takeoff (trees and salt water at both ends) engine problems during this takeoff would be problematic.
Port Angeles is about 6 or 7 minutes away in the IVP and has a nice long and wide runway, so the plan is to head directly there and perform engine break in over head that airport followed by several landings there prior to returning to home field. There is another runway at Sequim midway between that is 4,000 ft long - it’s narrow but could be a satisfactory emergency strip if necessary.
Is there advice other than hiring another test pilot and/or buying time in someone else’s IVP that I should be planning for to lower risks in this upcoming event? Any other concerns I should be thinking about I haven’t mentioned?
Regards,
John Barrett, CEO
Leading Edge Composites
PO Box 428
Port Hadlock, WA 98339
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