Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #63758
From: N20087 <n20087@yahoo.com>
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: stalls
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2013 08:34:09 -0500
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
Jeff

Justin's phone number is (757) 332-0537

Thanks

Tom

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 5, 2013, at 11:19 AM, vtailjeff@aol.com wrote:

Great talking to you Tom! Please remember to send me Justin's contact information. 

Jeff


-----Original Message-----
From: N20087 <n20087@yahoo.com>
To: lml <lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, Jan 4, 2013 11:46 am
Subject: [LML] Re: stalls

Jeff

I tried calling you on your cell to discuss this.topic. The call would not go through. Would you have some time for me on the subject?

540 521 1551

Tom Gardiner

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 3, 2013, at 6:03 PM, vtailjeff@aol.com wrote:

Bill,

I respectfully disagree with just about everything you are saying here. Would you please contact me offline or give me you number so I can call you?

Jeff Edwards
324-308-6719 cell


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
To: lml <lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, Jan 3, 2013 2:34 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: stalls

We are on the same page here, Colyn.
 
You are saying that you should be trained to fly your airplane and so am I.  The ability to recognize and recover from a stall is taught before a new pilot is ever allowed to solo.  That ability is critical.  Same with the LIV.  You can not get a plane on the ground without stalling it so you are going to encounter the characteristics of a stall every time you land.  If that starts to happen when you are too high, you can die.
 
Bill
 

From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Colyn Case
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 11:31 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: stalls
 
Bill, 
 
No you didn't get it.
 
You are on a public mailing list comprised of pilots with a wide range of experience and skills and owners of airplanes with a wide range of CG's, wing incidences, airfoil shapes closer or farther from spec.   It is a statistical fact that the accident rate among these permutations of pilots and aircraft doing whatever operations they do is 300 times worse per operational hour than airline operation.   Notably solo pilots with limited make/model experience fare much worse.
 
Just to highlight the variance in airframes, when Len Fox was testing my stall characteristics, he became so annoyed with the pre-disposition of the airplane to break to the right that he grabbed a 2' sanding block raked off the primer from my leading edge to fix it.   Similarly, when Len was testing the factory specimen of the Columbia he had to bail out because it wouldn't recover from a spin the way the prototype (built to the same specs) did.   That's how little a change affects flight behavior.   
 
You may be on high moral ground saying that pilots should be able to execute and recover from stalls in any aircraft they fly.   However, unless you can accurately predict that every pilot on this list operating with whatever aircraft, however configured,  with no prior experience doing so, will have a safe outcome the first time performing this maneuver alone, then I would recommend against provoking all of them to do so.
 
Looking at the Lancair safety situation, the number one thing that shows up is that pilots who get the full training syllabus are doing a lot better than those that don't.   That is why I take issue with recommendations to experiment on your own.   By all means, be familiar with your airplane, but give us a hand with the safety situation and get trained in this make/model.
 
Colyn
  
On Jan 3, 2013, at 10:16 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote:


No, I got it.  I just don’t get all this talk about Lancairs being deadly in a stall.  It seems you are trying to scare Lancair drivers into foregoing stall training.  That, in my opinion, will kill more people than learning to fly their planes.  I understand the reason for no spins and if you know how to recover your plane from an incipient stall, there should never be a reason to recover from a spin.
But flying a plane that you are afraid to, and have never, stalled is just plane dumb!
 

From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Colyn Case
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 8:33 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: stalls
 
I guess you didn't get my point...
 
On Jan 2, 2013, at 6:16 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote:



Because nobody wants to die alone??
 
If you are not competent to practice stalls solo in your Lancair, you probably shouldn’t be flying it solo.
 
 

From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Colyn Case
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 2:04 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: stalls
 
aerodynamically, I don't know what  a Lancair has in common with a Zlin.    One thing it doesn't have is excess control authority.   I'm all in favor of stall recognition training but I wouldn't advocate everyone going out in their Lancair's solo and doing it....
 
On Jan 2, 2013, at 9:45 AM, Andres Katz wrote:
 
Why not?
If you never stall the airplane when it happens you won't be able to recognize what is doing and how to react. Learning what your airplane does when it stalls and recovering from it is essential to safe flight. In flying Acro we stall the airplane multiple times, at low altitude and in front of ungrateful critical sobs that will laugh at you when you screw up but will give you good tips about recovering from it. Every airplane stalls differently, right wing drop, left wing drop, bucking etc. learning what the airplane does pre stall is the most important. My ZLIN 50 is so nice it begins to buckle and bitch at me and tells me what I need to do (lower the stick) before it kills me. I advise you to get a good instructor and go to 10,000 feet and spend the best 2 hrs of your life stalling your airplane and getting to know her. It's 
Ike making love to your wife and knowing when she is happy.....
Sorry about that but
My old savvy instructor when checking me out in single seat airplanes always told me the same, go out to a safe altitude, stall the airplane, learn when it does it look at the speed when it happens, add 10  knots and come and land, it has never failed to get me down safely ie yak55, Jungmeister, ZLIN, chipmunk etc.
My few cents worth of it. You will live longer.

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 2, 2013, at 7:15 AM, "David M. Powell CRFA" <superdmp@sonic.net> wrote:
I have made the decision prior to purchasing to avoid stalls altogether in my 360.  After reading the stall and stall spin accident information, I just don't think it's worth the risk.  On take-off, I stay in ground effect for the half second it takes to make it into the green after wheels up; on landing, I approach well above stall for my flap configuration, and let the speed bleed off only a few feet above the threshold.  During normal flight, I don't even get near a typical slow flight speed.  Too many variables in a home built airplane with no precise envelope, a header tank that is PROBABLY where I think it is, but could be off by 30 or 40 pounds if the gauge is stuck; possible extra wait in the tail area (water retention after heavy rain).
 

From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Gray
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 9:43 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] stalls
Colyn, As I said, AVOID STEEP TURNS IN THE PATTERN.  If you are flying low under the hood, I hope you have a well qualified  safety pilot
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