Here is a response I made to this thread on the LML several years ago. I think it still applies.
I don't think we're looking at the stall awareness situation with the same view.
In most all cases when an aircraft encounters a unintentional stall--it will not be from straight and level. It will be in a turn of some sort. So the break may help if in a left turn OR it may put you upside down if in a right turn.(Thats for the IV's customary right break.)
So the result of the wing drop will have to be corrected back toward straight and level. And that will only be accomplished after reduce the angle of attack and get enough airspeed to make both wings fly.
I did a Lancair IV (with no stall strips/) recurrent training on Thursday. And the airplane gave absolutely no buffet until it broke. In the full flaps and landing gear configuration it flew to about 67 and abruptly broke to the right. (From level flight) My experience has been that if the (10 inch/18 inch from fuselage) stall strips would have been installed there would have been a three to five knot buffet warning that would have initiated an earlier recovery. (Non aerobatic Dr. pilot). No break. That warning is what I am after. And I believe it is the turn to final- stall warning- that can save lives.
And I want it in the flight controls like a stick shaker. Not in an instrument on the panel-- or a bitching Betty (that I have mentally turned off years ago.)
Case in point. On take off several months ago, a large bird flew up as I was about 10 feet off the ground on takeoff. I pulled up aggressively and turned right. I immediately felt the stall buffet/ and release the back pressure/unloading the wing and flew out of the situation.
Feeling the buffet allowed me to sense what the wing was doing. I feel the stall strips gave me the input I needed and saved the day.
I don't know that I'm willing to do any more testing-- other than the approach to stalls at 10,000 feet. I know what works. And I'm really not interested in doing spins or even trying to tame a particular wing break. As I said it's going to break one way or the other with or without strips. I do not think you'll get a (power off) falling leaf maneuver out of the IV. You can if you have a little power on. I used to always do accelerated stalls and found I could control the airplane when it began the roll. By unloading the wing with the elevator and ruddering the wings level with a little help from the ailerons. (thanks Guy)
I do not think the IV is unsafe or unconventional.
I don't have the qualifications of Len to analyze the stall characteristics. But I do have the experience of teaching stall/spins in T-34's for a number of years in an Air Force aero club at Hamilton Air Force Base California. Most of my aerobatics were self-taught and never really critiqued. I knew what worked and didn't. (An example is a IV barrel roll using rudder. It'll split ess out on me every time.)
And I have since test flown and trained in well over a hundred IV's.
I have seen practically every face of the Lancair IV. I really think the strips will give the bulk of our IV drivers the warning they need to stay out of trouble. xxxxxx said the other day that he wasn't about to let the airplane get slow unless he was over the runway.
I think that's the attitude of most IV pilots. But who knows when a Cessna 150 will be in front of you on final and you're trying to desperately slow down to keep from running over him. Maybe a go around isn't possible. I.e.- engine out/fire/ passenger with a heart attack/maybe you are ill.
Charlie K.
There is a letter from Mark Kirschner who had retired from Boeing as its chief aerodynamicist--and had built a Lancair IVP regarding the stall characteristics of the airplane. I checked the airplane/certified it/test flew it/and trained him in Seattle.
From: Jeff Edwards <vtailjeff@aol.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 11:30 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: stalls
No. I am saying what I said. Pilots should get the appropriate training, fly responsibly, and do what is necessary to tame the stall characteristics including installing stall strips , and AOA sensors. Remember, loss of control accidents are the leading cause of GA accidents. Just practicing stalls in an airplane ill prepared to do so is not wise IMHO. Many pilots need a thorough review of basic aerodynamics. If you want a good course of instruction on this take Rich Stowell' upset recovery course.
Best regards,
Jeff
Then you are saying that those IV aircraft are death traps and should be destroyed before they kill the people in them. It seems that Lancair has a problem on their hands with a very bad design.
Lobo does not encourage stall practice in IV series aircraft due the number of fatal accidents associated with stall training and testing in a IV series, including a number of test pilots and flight instructors.
Because nobody wants to die alone??
If you are not competent to practice stalls solo in your Lancair, you probably shouldn’t be flying it solo.
From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Colyn Case
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 2:04 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: stalls
aerodynamically, I don't know what a Lancair has in common with a Zlin. One thing it doesn't have is excess control authority. I'm all in favor of stall recognition training but I wouldn't advocate everyone going out in their Lancair's solo and doing it....
On Jan 2, 2013, at 9:45 AM, Andres Katz wrote:
If you never stall the airplane when it happens you won't be able to recognize what is doing and how to react. Learning what your airplane does when it stalls and recovering from it is essential to safe flight. In flying Acro we stall the airplane multiple times, at low altitude and in front of ungrateful critical sobs that will laugh at you when you screw up but will give you good tips about recovering from it. Every airplane stalls differently, right wing drop, left wing drop, bucking etc. learning what the airplane does pre stall is the most important. My ZLIN 50 is so nice it begins to buckle and bitch at me and tells me what I need to do (lower the stick) before it kills me. I advise you to get a good instructor and go to 10,000 feet and spend the best 2 hrs of your life stalling your airplane and getting to know her. It's
Ike making love to your wife and knowing when she is happy.....
My old savvy instructor when checking me out in single seat airplanes always told me the same, go out to a safe altitude, stall the airplane, learn when it does it look at the speed when it happens, add 10 knots and come and land, it has never failed to get me down safely ie yak55, Jungmeister, ZLIN, chipmunk etc.
My few cents worth of it. You will live longer.
Sent from my iPad
I have made the decision prior to purchasing to avoid stalls altogether in my 360. After reading the stall and stall spin accident information, I just don't think it's worth the risk. On take-off, I stay in ground effect for the half second it takes to make it into the green after wheels up; on landing, I approach well above stall for my flap configuration, and let the speed bleed off only a few feet above the threshold. During normal flight, I don't even get near a typical slow flight speed. Too many variables in a home built airplane with no precise envelope, a header tank that is PROBABLY where I think it is, but could be off by 30 or 40 pounds if the gauge is stuck; possible extra wait in the tail area (water retention after heavy rain).
From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Gray
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 9:43 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] stalls
Colyn, As I said, AVOID STEEP TURNS IN THE PATTERN. If you are flying low under the hood, I hope you have a well qualified safety pilot
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