X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 16:45:06 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mta21.charter.net ([216.33.127.81] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c1) with ESMTP id 5722233 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 21 Aug 2012 12:36:17 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.33.127.81; envelope-from=troneill@charter.net Received: from imp09 ([10.20.200.9]) by mta21.charter.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.02 201-2260-151-103-20110920) with ESMTP id <20120821163540.BEMB12025.mta21.charter.net@imp09> for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2012 12:35:40 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.101] ([75.132.241.174]) by imp09 with smtp.charter.net id pUbf1j00i3mUFT705UbgYW; Tue, 21 Aug 2012 12:35:40 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=nlrKf9u5uG3fs/vD0VBbL3/xzyN25p4t1WHsSeqasGo= c=1 sm=1 a=h1FdQ00XVf8A:10 a=yUnIBFQkZM0A:10 a=4c-Tf2x-tm4A:10 a=VxlS/kh5Y2KhHY/Xui1ATg==:17 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=PYzGf8RvoWGMpaOxjjUA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=rC2wZJ5BpNYA:10 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=VxlS/kh5Y2KhHY/Xui1ATg==:117 From: Terrence O'Neill Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-8-40036197 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Floatation Devices (or full survival gear) flying over the Great Lakes X-Original-Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 11:35:39 -0500 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: <071AE7ED-20B3-4D04-9ACD-56152C51A06C@charter.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) --Apple-Mail-8-40036197 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Excellent. Jarred some memories loose. Dilbert Dunker. An hour in the pool with 50 = other guys with clothes on... then gunnery with a .30 cal's rear in = the cockpit... I had my seatpack raft slip forward during my last Basic gunnery run = (got 20 hits) at 'bloody Barin'... in an SNJ, and there I was going = down briskly toward the Caribbean at 45 degrees, the stick jammed by the = raft against the seat to which I was tightly strapped. Our towplane pilot called and asked where I was going. At first I stopped struggling with the raft and reached for the old = mike... I think I said something disrespectful, then concentrated on = figuring out how to shove the raft back between me and the chute. Lift a = little.. etc.=20 My guardian angel helped. On Aug 21, 2012, at 10:45 AM, cwfmd@yahoo.com wrote: > Jeff, > I have enjoyed my IV-P for 4 1/2 years now, but not outside gliding = distance from land. You were the theoretical physicist at the LNC = campsite, at Sun n Fun in 2008, just after I acquired it. > I was lucky to have the benefit of Navy survival training in the = "Dilbert dunker" and the helo dunker, which was even more diabolical. I = went on to teach this stuff as a flight surgeon, and test pilot, at = squadrons, TPS, and Naval PostGraduate School. I also got to help = develop new trainers and simulators, like T-45. > The main thing you learn, is how to control panic, in a desperate = situation, because that is your only chance to get out. (0) > We were very fit 20-somethings when we did this, and I doubt if I = could meet the same fitness standards now. > =20 > Now, Take a deep breath and hold it. > (as long as you can, while reading this, below, at the = appropriate pace.) > =20 > =20 > If the aircraft goes under, or sinks, or inverted, you have to figure = out how to get the door open(0a) wait for equilibrium of very cold = in-rushing water, before releasing your seat belt. If you do this too = early, you lose critical reference points and end up in the back of the = plane, with no escape, headed the wrong direction(1). Still holding your = breath? > I would recommend a similar experience to anyone contemplating such = an adventure. You could start, like an incremental flight test, by = swimming in the same lake, off a boat, but wear a life preserver and = take a buddy swimmer. If you are still game, and still want to try with = others, then get your passengers to try it with you(1a). Try out the = raft and equipment. Many 50-somethings cannot get into the raft, because = of fitness, strength, or arthritis, rapidly aggravated by very cold = water. Some cannot inflate their life preserver, and will need help, if = they escape from the plane. Finally, take the aviation sim/ water = survival course, in a pool with divers. > Alternatively, take the advice of those who survived the survival = training. Honestly, when they told me to put on the blindfold again when = I lost my bearings, it was the only time in a 25 year Naval Aviation = carer that I considered a DOR(2). My copilot had given me a good kick in = the face with his boot.... wasn't my fault, I did everything right, but = I still got another run.... In the Navy we go back every 4 years for = this "practice drowning" exercise. I got better at being patient, to = wait for the panic-ers to leave first. > Now whenever they give that escape lighting briefing on the airlines, = look for the old guys that follow every detail of the brief. They do = find the "nearest exit" and look for the handholds needed for reference, = in the blind.. They are probably veterans of this water survival course. = You never forget. > And I never fly single engine, with untrained 'survivors', over the = Great Lakes or Pacific coast waters, outside gliding range. (3) > =20 > Happy flying(inside glide range:) > Bill Miller > =20 > Notes: > (0) Training is always assisted when they make the next Titanic movie: = unsinkable, frigid water, ice, etc, etc. > (0a)another topic is complexity of that latch and what might happen = under structural distortion? > (1) anybody else looking at alt escape portal, as required on = certified? We are designing a pry-bar to release the right rear window, = in case the single door is jammed or obstructed > (1a) most of us ignore the water temp and wetsuits(dry suits), unless = we actually try this out! > (2) DOR =3D drop on request, voluntary resignation from Aviation > (3) until they actually drop you in the choppy bay, pick you up in the = helo, its hard to imagine the hazards. My helo diverted when my = neighboring raft set off his flare for sharks. Now am I the bait? > Don't touch the basket until it hits the water cause the static = discharge can kill you. You can't see anything in the rotor down-wash = and spray. Wonder where my glasses are? > (4) If you think this sounds depressing, imagine facing it 'de novo', = without any experience, and the guilt, for those you might leave behind. > =20 > Sorry, it's reality, but easily avoided. Denial is not a good option = in this domain. > 91.103 Preflight action. > Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become = familiar with all available information concerning that flight. --Apple-Mail-8-40036197 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii cwfmd@yahoo.com = wrote:
Jeff,
I have enjoyed my IV-P for 4 1/2 years now, but not outside gliding = distance from land. You were the theoretical physicist at the LNC = campsite, at Sun n Fun in 2008, just after I acquired it.
 I was lucky to have the benefit of Navy survival training in = the "Dilbert dunker" and the helo dunker, which was even more = diabolical. I went on to teach this stuff as a flight surgeon, and test = pilot, at squadrons,  TPS, and Naval PostGraduate School. I also = got to help develop new trainers and simulators, like T-45.
 The main thing you learn, is how to control panic, in = a desperate situation, because that is your only chance to get out. = (0)
 We were very fit 20-somethings when we did this, and I doubt = if I could meet the same fitness standards now.
 
Now, Take a deep breath and hold it.
      (as long as you can, while reading = this, below, at the appropriate pace.)
 
 
If the aircraft goes under, or sinks, or inverted, you have to = figure out how to get the door open(0a) wait for equilibrium of very = cold in-rushing water, before releasing your seat belt. If you do this = too early, you lose critical reference points and end up in the back of = the plane, with no escape, headed the wrong direction(1). Still holding = your breath?
 I would recommend a similar experience to anyone = contemplating such an adventure. You could start, like an incremental = flight test, by swimming in the same lake, off a boat, but wear a = life preserver and take a buddy swimmer. If you are still game, and = still want to try with others, then get your passengers to try it = with you(1a). Try out the raft and equipment. Many 50-somethings cannot = get into the raft, because of fitness, strength, or arthritis, rapidly = aggravated by very cold water. Some cannot inflate their life preserver, = and will need help, if they escape from the plane. Finally, = take the aviation sim/ water survival course, in a pool with = divers.
Alternatively, take the advice of those who survived the survival = training. Honestly, when they told me to put on the blindfold again when = I lost my bearings, it was the only time in a 25 year Naval Aviation = carer that I considered a DOR(2). My copilot had given me a good kick in = the face with his boot.... wasn't my fault, I did everything right, but = I still got another run.... In the Navy we go back every 4 years for = this "practice drowning" exercise. I got better at being patient, to = wait for the panic-ers to leave first.
 Now whenever they give that escape lighting briefing on the = airlines, look for the old guys that follow every detail of the brief. = They do find the "nearest exit" and look for the handholds needed for = reference, in the blind.. They are probably veterans of this water = survival course. You never forget.
And I never fly single engine, with untrained = 'survivors', over the Great Lakes or Pacific coast waters, outside = gliding range. (3)
 
Happy flying(inside glide range:)
Bill Miller
 
Notes:
(0) Training is always assisted when they make the next Titanic = movie: unsinkable, frigid water, ice, etc, etc.
(0a)another topic is complexity of that latch and what might happen = under structural distortion?
(1) anybody else looking at alt escape portal, as required on = certified? We are designing a pry-bar to release the right rear window, = in case the single door is jammed or obstructed
(1a) most of us ignore the water temp and wetsuits(dry suits), = unless we actually try this out!
(2) DOR =3D drop on request, voluntary resignation from = Aviation
(3) until they actually drop you in the choppy bay, pick you up in = the helo, its hard to imagine the hazards.  My helo diverted when = my neighboring raft set off his flare for sharks. Now am I the bait? =
Don't touch the basket until it hits the water cause the static = discharge can kill you. You can't see anything in the rotor down-wash = and spray. Wonder where my glasses are?
(4) If you think this sounds depressing, imagine facing it 'de = novo', without any experience, and the guilt, for those you might leave = behind.
 
Sorry, it's reality, but easily avoided. Denial is not a good = option in this domain.
91.103 Preflight action.
Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become = familiar with all available information concerning that = flight.

= = --Apple-Mail-8-40036197--