X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 11:45:04 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c1) with ESMTP id 5721774 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 21 Aug 2012 10:05:41 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.206.42; envelope-from=vtailjeff@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.73]) by imr-ma04.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q7LE4px7010339 for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2012 10:04:51 -0400 Received: from core-mna001b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mna001.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.106.1]) by mtaomg-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id BBFC3E00008C for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2012 10:04:50 -0400 (EDT) References: X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Floatation Devices (or full survival gear) flying over the Great Lakes In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: vtailjeff@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CF4DBD109D41EC_E9C_9813_webmail-stg-m01.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36912-STANDARD Received: from 75.56.140.209 by webmail-stg-m01.sysops.aol.com (64.12.222.100) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 21 Aug 2012 10:04:50 -0400 X-Original-Message-Id: <8CF4DBD1093BC64-E9C-2DC6@webmail-stg-m01.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [75.56.140.209] X-Original-Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 10:04:50 -0400 (EDT) x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:409533504:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29495033958210e4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8CF4DBD109D41EC_E9C_9813_webmail-stg-m01.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" This is a great topic about risk management. As former naval flight officer= who operated off of aircraft carriers-- I can assure you that flotation eq= uipment may save your life someday--if you have the good sense to take it a= nd use it properly. As with anything else--training counts. I have been thr= ough water survival school in the Navy more than once. I have participated = in more than one search and rescue (or recovery as the case may be). If you= have a vest on and you are in the water--the only thing that will be above= water is from your chin up. Try finding that person while you are flying a= search pattern at 1000' MSL --virtually impossible. Your survival in that = situation will depend on water temperature and time. It will be measured in= minutes or hours--not days. If you are wise enough to have a raft you have= greatly increased your odds that you will be found and survive. Your survi= val chances go up tremendously in a raft and your survival time goes up as = well-- to days or weeks depending on other factors. A PLB or EPIRB will als= o increase your odds of being found quickly. The "advice" about flying over= the Great Lakes without water survival eqipment IMHO is unwise. You are be= tting that you will never have to ditch over water. This bet flies in the = face of experience that all of us know to be true. Pilots have ditched over= the Great Lakes. Many of them. The real question is will you be one of tho= se pilots and will you survive? The odds are very low that you will have to= ditch BUT if you don't have proper equipment you will likely perish. Wishf= ul thinking is not good risk management.=20 -----Original Message----- From: vtailjeff To: lml Sent: Tue, Aug 21, 2012 6:53 am Subject: [LML] Re: Floatation Devices (or full survival gear) flying over t= he Great Lakes How far can you swim? Sent from my iPad On Aug 20, 2012, at 5:44 PM, "Danny" wrote: > I fly the GL area too and NEVER take flotation gear. =20 Danny LNC2-360, 650 hours N 38=C2=B0 43' 25.7" W 77=C2=B0 30' 38.6" =20 -----Original Message----- From: jeffrey liegner [mailto:liegner@ptd.net]=20 Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 8:07 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Floatation Devices (or full survival gear) flying over the Great Lakes =20 My wife has asked how many of you have floatation devices or full survival gear in the plane when transiting over the Great Lakes? =20 =20 I'll be at FL220-FL230 and have a 20:1 glide ratio (LIVP, Feathering Prop)= . I understand the math. =20 But how many of you carry floatation devices? =20 Jeff L =20 -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.htm= l =20 =20 -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.htm= l -- or archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html ----------MB_8CF4DBD109D41EC_E9C_9813_webmail-stg-m01.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
This is a great topic about risk management. As former naval flig= ht officer who operated off of aircraft carriers-- I can assure you that fl= otation equipment may save your life someday--if you have the good sense to= take it and use it properly. As with anything else--training counts. I hav= e been through water survival school in the Navy more than once. I have par= ticipated in more than one search and rescue (or recovery as the case may b= e). If you have a vest on and you are in the water--the only thing that wil= l be above water is from your chin up. Try finding that person while you ar= e flying a search pattern at 1000' MSL --virtually impossible. Your surviva= l in that situation will depend on water temperature and time. It will be m= easured in minutes or hours--not days. If you are wise enough to have a raf= t you have greatly increased your odds that you will be found and survive. = Your survival chances go up tremendously in a raft and your survival time g= oes up as well-- to days or weeks depending on other factors. A PLB or EPIR= B will also increase your odds of being found quickly. The "advice" about f= lying over the Great Lakes without water survival eqipment IMHO is unwise. = You are betting that  you will never have to ditch over water. This be= t flies in the face of experience that all of us know to be true. Pilots ha= ve ditched over the Great Lakes. Many of them. The real question is will yo= u be one of those pilots and will you survive? The odds are very low that y= ou will have to ditch BUT if you don't have proper equipment you will likel= y perish. Wishful thinking is not good risk management.
 

 
= -----Original Message-----
From: vtailjeff <vtailjeff@aol.com>
To: lml <lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Aug 21, 2012 6:53 am
Subject: [LML] Re: Floatation Devices (or full survival gear) flying over t= he Great Lakes

How fa=
r can you swim?

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 20, 2012, at 5:44 PM, "Danny" <danny@n107sd.com> wrote:

> I fly the GL area too and NEVER take flotation gear.
>=20
> Danny
> LNC2-360, 650 hours
> N 38=C2=B0 43' 25.7"
> W 77=C2=B0 30' 38.6"
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jeffrey liegner [mailto:lieg=
ner@ptd.net]=20
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 8:07 AM
> To: lml@lancaironline.net
> Subject: [LML] Floatation Devices (or full survival gear) flying over =
the
> Great Lakes
>=20
> My wife has asked how many of you have floatation devices or full surv=
ival
> gear in the plane when transiting over the Great Lakes? =20
>=20
> I'll be at FL220-FL230 and have a 20:1 glide ratio (LIVP, Feathering P=
rop).
> I understand the math.
>=20
> But how many of you carry floatation devices?
>=20
> Jeff L
>=20
> --
> For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lm=
l/List.html
>=20
>=20
> --
> For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lm=
l/List.html

--
For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/Lis=
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