X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:50:50 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.68] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTP id 5391699 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:47:10 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.68; envelope-from=colyncase@earthlink.net DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=niIw2J0YkOsH8KERJYDuwUNgQ+IxbD0dWwjNWnO0tPqxl84JVihkMRu8p8VZkVy2; h=Received:From:Content-Type:Subject:Date:References:To:Message-Id:Mime-Version:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [70.20.44.47] (helo=[192.168.1.24]) by elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Rw3uw-00056Q-Rd for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:46:31 -0500 From: Colyn Case Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-129-584955849 Subject: Fwd: [LML] Re: Tempest spark plugs X-Original-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:46:30 -0500 References: X-Original-To: "lml@lancaironline.net List" X-Original-Message-Id: <3CC1E8A5-19A6-4DAC-B05C-C546ED436908@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-ELNK-Trace: 63d5d3452847f8b1d6dd28457998182d7e972de0d01da94072e91e8ba808f46c66ebef2efa14b34b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 70.20.44.47 --Apple-Mail-129-584955849 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Looks like Walter didn't copy the lml so here is a bit more on the = thread FWIW. Far as I can tell this means Tempest Massives are preferred. Begin forwarded message: From: Walter Atkinson Date: February 10, 2012 9:58:00 PM EST To: Colyn Case Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Tempest spark plugs Not to MY knowledge, but my knowledge on that particular issue is = limited. I do not have a break-down of failures to refer to be able to = answer you appropriately. Walter On Feb 10, 2012, at 7:34 PM, Colyn Case wrote: Have any tempest fine wires failed? Sent from my iPhone On Feb 10, 2012, at 8:40 PM, Walter Atkinson = wrote: > Since September more information has come to light. The Tempest plugs = are preferred as of now. Checking resistance is a very good idea any = time the plugs are gapped or checked in any way. >=20 > Walter >=20 >=20 > On Feb 10, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Colyn Case wrote: >=20 > Walter, >=20 > Can you please clarify TAT's position on Tempest plugs? >=20 > I'm inferring from the link below that the following are true: > a) So far only Champion fine wires are implicated > b) but TAT suspects Tempest fine wire have the same failure mode > c) and TAT further prefers the 29 heat range which Tempest doesn't = offer. > d) Therefore TAT has a preferred recommendation of Champion massives = vs. Tempest anything. >=20 > = http://www.taturbo.com/TATSR22-SB11-05%20fine%20wire%20spark%20plugs%20ini= tial%20release%20sept%2023%202011.pdf >=20 > Colyn >=20 > On Feb 9, 2012, at 11:55 AM, Walter Atkinson wrote: >=20 > The issue is the resistance. Plugs should be routinely tested for = resistance and when out of spec., should be replaced. The problem with = cracked ceramics is not detonation, it is pre-ignition, which is much = more damaging. The Champion plugs are having resistance problems. The = Tempest plugs are far less likely to present a resistance problem. >=20 > Walter >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Feb 9, 2012, at 8:29 AM, Ron Laughlin wrote: >=20 > Don't know if anyone brought this up yet but Tornado Alley Turbos has > recently issued an "mandatory" service bulletin on fine wire plugs. > Apparently they are more prone to insulator cracks than the massives. > When the insulation falls off they turn into "glow plugs" and can lead > to a detonation event. I think George has documented this. Here's the > SB: >=20 > >=20 > Ron >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 11:37 AM, Tim Olson wrote: >> The fine wire plugs are pretty darn durable. Mine are >> the Unison (now tempest) ones. I find that they're easier >> to clean with the walnut chip blaster because without the >> massive side electrodes, it's much easier to get down in >> them to clean them. They run real well for me. For my >> dollar, I'll go Tempest fine wire for sure. There's nothing >> magical about the Champions, and in fact you're just >> sticking with something older at that point when there is >> "new improved" available. The resistors alone are a good >> reason to switch. >>=20 >> FWIW, I did the same thing with oil filters. After buying >> 2 each of Champion, Kelly, and Tempest, I now only buy >> Tempest oil filters. The Kelly filters were just too >> flimsy. The champion are higher price with lower >> quality features. >>=20 >> Tim >>=20 >> On 2/8/2012 7:05 AM, Art Jensen wrote: >>>=20 >>> Lorn, >>>=20 >>> Talked with Linda today. Still don't know the benefits of using fine >>> wire (Iridium) versus massive other than price. Champion massive are >>> $26.95 versus Tempest massive at $22.75. Champion fine wire = (Iridium) >>> $89.95 versus Tempest fine wire (Iridum) at $49.50. These prices are >>> from Aircraft Spruce. >>>=20 >>> I like the idea of the center electrode and resistor being fused >>> together as one piece. That new design is found in both types of = plugs >>> made by Tempest. The price difference between the two types of plugs >>> should be no factor since the Fine wire (Iridium) are supposed to = last >>> 1000 hours or more than the massive. >>>=20 >>> According to Linda, the platinum plugs are no longer being = manufactured. >>>=20 >>> I have a call in to tech. Support at Champion but have not heard = back >>> from them yet. >>>=20 >>> Art Jensen >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> = ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *From: * Lorn H Olsen ; >>> *To: * ; >>> *Subject: * [LML] Re: Tempest spark plugs >>> *Sent: * Tue, Feb 7, 2012 5:28:43 PM >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Art, >>>=20 >>> Iridium spark plugs will last for 2,000 hours. With the Champion = plugs, >>> at 500 to 800 hours, you will either have to buy massive plugs to = swap >>> the resisters or buy new iridium plugs. I went to the junk yard and >>> pulled good resisters out of used massive plugs. The Tempest plug >>> resisters will stay good for the life of the plug. >>>=20 >>> Other than the resisters, you will not be able to tell the = difference >>> between the iridium plugs. Make sure that you don't get the older >>> platinum type. >>>=20 >>> To buy: >>>=20 >>> For good service with spark plugs call Linda Lou, Inc. in Memphis, = Tn. >>> All Linda sells are plugs. She has replaced dropped plugs for me in = the >>> past. Linda also gave me the number of a Champion rep. I will talk = to >>> him in the near future and see if resisters or replacements are >>> available for the high resistance Champion plugs. >>>=20 >>> 800-824-9912 >>>=20 >>> Her prices for plugs are: >>>=20 >>> Tempest: $51.00 >>> Champion: $89.95 >>>=20 >>> Lorn >>>=20 >>> On Feb 7, 2012, at 6:00 AM, Lancair Mailing List wrote: >>>=20 >>>> From: Art Jensen > >>>=20 >>>> Date: February 6, 2012 7:50:13 PM EST >>>>=20 >>>> All, >>>>=20 >>>> Would like to hear from everyone using the tempest spark plugs. Are >>> you satisfied with them? Do you think they are better than Champion, = and >>> why? Are you using the massive or fine wire? Help me make an = informed >>> decision. >>>>=20 >>>> I am getting ready to order a new set of plugs. I currently use the >>> RHB32E by Champion in my IO-550-N. I have no complaints with these = plugs >>> but wonder if the Tempest with their one piece resistor design is = better >>> as their ad would suggest. >>>>=20 >>>> Thank you for your input >>>>=20 >>>> Art Jensen >>>=20 >>> -- >>> Lorn H. 'Feathers' Olsen, MAA, ASMEL, ASES, Comm, Inst >>> DynaComm, Corp., 248-345-0500, mailto:lorn@dynacomm.us = >>>=20 >>> LNC2, FB90/92, O-320-D1F, 1,800 hrs, N31161, Y47, SE Michigan >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -- >>> For archives and unsub >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html >=20 > -- > For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-129-584955849 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Looks = like Walter didn't copy the lml so here is a bit more on the thread = FWIW.
Far as I can tell this means Tempest Massives are = preferred.


Begin forwarded = message:

From: Walter Atkinson = <walter@advancedpilot.com><= br>
Date: February 10, 2012 9:58:00 PM EST
To: Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Tempest spark = plugs

Not = to MY knowledge, but my knowledge on that particular issue is = limited.  I do not have a break-down of failures to refer to be = able to answer you = appropriately.

Walter



On Feb 10, 2012, at 7:34 PM, Colyn Case = wrote:

Have any = tempest fine wires failed?

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 10, = 2012, at 8:40 PM, Walter Atkinson <walter@advancedpilot.com> = wrote:

Since September more information = has come to light.  The Tempest plugs are preferred as of now. =  Checking resistance is a very good idea any time the plugs are = gapped or checked in any way.

Walter


On Feb 10, = 2012, at 5:37 PM, Colyn Case wrote:

Walter,

Can you please = clarify TAT's position on Tempest plugs?

I'm inferring = from the link below that the following are = true:
a) So far only Champion = fine wires are implicated
b) = but TAT suspects Tempest fine wire have the same failure = mode
c) and TAT further = prefers the 29 heat range which Tempest doesn't = offer.
d) Therefore TAT has a = preferred recommendation of Champion massives vs. Tempest = anything.

http://www.taturbo.com/TATS= R22-SB11-05%20fine%20wire%20spark%20plugs%20initial%20release%20sept%2023%= 202011.pdf

Colyn

On Feb 9, 2012, = at 11:55 AM, Walter Atkinson wrote:

The issue is = the resistance.  Plugs should be routinely tested for resistance = and when out of spec., should be replaced.  The problem with = cracked ceramics is not detonation, it is pre-ignition, which is much = more damaging.  The Champion plugs are having resistance problems. =  The Tempest plugs are far less likely to present a resistance = problem.

Walter



On Feb 9, 2012, = at 8:29 AM, Ron Laughlin wrote:

Don't know if = anyone brought this up yet but Tornado Alley Turbos = has
recently issued an = "mandatory" service bulletin on fine wire = plugs.
Apparently they are = more prone to insulator cracks than the = massives.
When the insulation = falls off they turn into "glow plugs" and can = lead
to a detonation event. I = think George has documented this. Here's the
SB:

<TATSR22-SB11-05 fine wire spark plugs initial release = sept 23 2011.pdf>

Ron



On Wed, Feb 8, = 2012 at 11:37 AM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> = wrote:
The fine wire plugs are pretty darn durable.  Mine = are
the Unison (now tempest) ones.  I find that they're = easier
to clean with the walnut chip blaster because without = the
massive side electrodes, it's much easier to get down = in
them to clean them.  They run real well for me. =  For my
dollar, I'll go Tempest fine = wire for sure.  There's = nothing
magical about the Champions, and in fact you're = just
sticking with something older at that point when there = is
"new improved" available.  The resistors alone are a = good
reason to switch.

FWIW, I did the same thing with = oil filters.  After buying
2 each of Champion, Kelly, and = Tempest, I now only buy
Tempest oil filters.  The = Kelly filters were just too
flimsy.  The champion are = higher price with lower
quality = features.

Tim

On 2/8/2012 7:05 AM, Art Jensen = wrote:

Lorn,

Talked = with Linda today. Still don't know the benefits of using = fine
wire = (Iridium) versus massive other than price. Champion massive = are
$26.95 = versus Tempest massive at $22.75. Champion fine wire = (Iridium)
$89.95 = versus Tempest fine wire (Iridum) at $49.50. These prices = are
from = Aircraft Spruce.

I like = the idea of the center electrode and resistor being = fused
together= as one piece. That new design is found in both types of = plugs
made = by Tempest. The price difference between the two types of = plugs
should = be no factor since the Fine wire (Iridium) are supposed to = last
1000 = hours or more than the = massive.

According to Linda, the platinum plugs are no longer being = manufactured.

I have = a call in to tech. Support at Champion but have not heard = back
from = them yet.

Art = Jensen


------------------------------------------------------------= ------------
*From: = * Lorn H Olsen <lorn@dynacomm.us>;
*To: * <lml@lancaironline.net>;
*Subject: * [LML] Re: Tempest = spark plugs
*Sent: = * Tue, Feb 7, 2012 5:28:43 = PM


Art,

Iridium = spark plugs will last for 2,000 hours. With the Champion = plugs,
at 500 = to 800 hours, you will either have to buy massive plugs to = swap
the = resisters or buy new iridium plugs. I went to the junk yard = and
pulled = good resisters out of used massive plugs. The Tempest = plug
resisters will stay good for the life of the = plug.

Other = than the resisters, you will not be able to tell the = difference
between = the iridium plugs. Make sure that you don't get the = older
platinum= type.

To = buy:

For = good service with spark plugs call Linda Lou, Inc. in Memphis, = Tn.
All = Linda sells are plugs. She has replaced dropped plugs for me in = the
past. = Linda also gave me the number of a Champion rep. I will talk = to
him in = the near future and see if resisters or replacements = are
available for the high resistance Champion = plugs.

800-824-9912

Her = prices for plugs = are:

Tempest:= $51.00
Champion: = $89.95

Lorn

On Feb = 7, 2012, at 6:00 AM, Lancair Mailing List = wrote:

From: Art Jensen <flycassutts@yahoo.com = <javascript:return>>

Date: February 6, 2012 7:50:13 = PM = EST

All,
=

Would like to hear from everyone = using the tempest spark plugs. = Are
you = satisfied with them? Do you think they are better than Champion, = and
why? = Are you using the massive or fine wire? Help me make an = informed
decision.

I am getting ready to order a = new set of plugs. I currently use = the
RHB32E = by Champion in my IO-550-N. I have no complaints with these = plugs
but = wonder if the Tempest with their one piece resistor design is = better
as = their ad would = suggest.

Thank you for your = input

Art = Jensen

--
Lorn = H. 'Feathers' Olsen, MAA, ASMEL, ASES, Comm, = Inst
DynaComm, Corp., 248-345-0500, mailto:lorn@dynacomm.us = <javascript:return>

LNC2, = FB90/92, O-320-D1F, 1,800 hrs, N31161, Y47, SE = Michigan


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