X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2012 08:02:36 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm21-vm0.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.91.220] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with SMTP id 5380905 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 23:18:37 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.91.220; envelope-from=wfhannahan@yahoo.com Received: from [98.139.91.70] by nm21.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Feb 2012 04:18:02 -0000 Received: from [98.139.91.58] by tm10.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Feb 2012 04:17:02 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1058.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Feb 2012 04:17:02 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 843752.56219.bm@omp1058.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 22419 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Feb 2012 04:17:02 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=v7vHOtMXrn8qWMfWxD0Xc2pdfn33roOnEUzyZWeWWScUxfymihX+rkc1EyegexSE4hWitWJ4RBJfOr02nQpja8pM9OzVTlAoTuKzZWO/nknLwVwGs6AZyLpMIHCqLNkV6+13+uSxdpkH+APT6Cib1iR3yOaSdDNSQ82nyndDJws=; X-YMail-OSG: UUvO5k4VM1mae8f0a_8DnWwgzjZl00MrxS44ph3nlEWKHza bdqQME0gdX.fbfOsmGi928W7jCFveaq1gCrV5xP4.O.gx71FbJGfSfI25wwR Vs8bwx0NK2OnfTtBL29_utAfQY1ikp.80NvWnWW8m7v2cIJPrJzJKMvexYsL IGDVPT3OazmT60SmVDCduRUML.9Vm_PMmEGDZrSAjd_LDtmfmM1yeg7852DM AjXGhmoGImYCnkeT53zATIJq99BbRRLB6rpoOsTiaP9dFucoaqafNavQ_2KL tcZwTEr87KNKmYiiO4BWevI76nB_9txET7zrrnoAlvkgB9ye0.mYOpc1UhWX 9os87EWoinH.Ch2S.Yd97n_.ZMzm2m1b6.MnYSPFvEEFuaq_EEK4v2gwauQc UZXzhfv_lbVydnl_Rr7poLtM9dAaQ57clpmp668GYwfTpRl9rXb1Qy.2fFFe 1_UOe_AGPPVNzjliIVZNIcwkc4DNW2XWQMVR4STdiRiir2z64z33y80gysPy WoZF4YTcqzdW.bDX73zZxJiWcEkMRPptQuOBv6Vj4Ds6ZUXRXC_F0xahyFNp _NVLRz3wNPBo0DqbugLDIi_XouQydY8Gcgr4.2oApAiwcz_8naKPAjGLKZYP 2MqxD5XOOZfMNHq2vinbDO5PCHvVKJZ7drrApHUpBVWRUphlo48KfFyAbj37 SrVadIzvFD_7PnFyoVKc6hEM5puk0kepAs0h4K4jyB9FPkdvJHVhcRUjYyFu PElGbMC4PFn2LABPZVjMTQX554zK0KQss9eApl79ZvgZa5V84ik6XlgCnP_C AZmlyUgTcb5M8yDkfgsEB8n7g1meXsb6hVWKv_pfF0.wyMmdILmmFUgk6Cew 1Fh20YT9qAT0E_PjgQaw8QYYSS5dKW3sWbG2UweMsrSFaShg0htYqMdBeO0F OwgCzRJNXOxD3eyHkaj74sAQkvWyONascI5LxyK942YufUHls1B0- Received: from [97.123.68.40] by web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 20:17:02 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.116.331537 References: X-Original-Message-ID: <1328242622.22268.YahooMailNeo@web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 20:17:02 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Hannahan Reply-To: Bill Hannahan Subject: 320/360 Hydraulic Pressure Switch X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-876930380-262310263-1328242622=:22268" ---876930380-262310263-1328242622=:22268 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =C2=A0=0AChris, thanks for=0Athe feedback and the work you did.=0A=C2=A0=0A= I sense a=0Acontradiction in this statement;=0A=C2=A0=0A[Our pumps come wit= h=0Athe lowest of three fixed TRVvalues.=C2=A0 The set-point is 2,500 psi,= =0Athus the statement "approximately=0A100-140 bar (1500-2000 psi) above=0A= the system relief valve pressure" still holds true.]=0A=C2=A0=0AI see two= =0Ainterpretations.=0A=C2=A0=0A1=E2=80=A6 The TRV =E2=80=9Csetpoint=0Ais 2,= 500 psi=E2=80=9D, presumably referenced to reservoir pressure, which is amb= ient=0Acabin pressure assuming the reservoir is well vented. Thus the TRV w= ill limit=0Athe output pressure to 2,500 psig max. In that case the graphs = in the brochure=0Ado not apply for our pumps above 2500 psi.=0A=C2=A0=0A2= =E2=80=A6 The TRV setpoint=0Ais=E2=80=9C(1500-2000 psi) above the system re= lief valve=0Apressure.=E2=80=9D I interpret =E2=80=9Csystem relief valve pr= essure=E2=80=9D to be the setpoint of the=0Ainternal HPRV or LPRV located u= pstream of the check valves. These set points=0Aare not specified in the br= ochure, but the performance graphs indicate that the=0AHPRV is at least 3,0= 00 psi which would make the TRV setpoint 4,500 - 5,000=0Apsig.=0A=C2=A0=0AP= erhaps you are=0Asaying the TRV setpoint is 1,500 =E2=80=93 2,000 psi above= the pressure switch=0Asetpoint=E2=80=99s, but I was commenting on this quo= te from the brochure which says=0Asomething else.=0A=C2=A0=0A=E2=80=9CIt is= a fixed relief=0Avalve with a pressure setting approximately 100-140 bar (= 1500-2000 psi) above=0Athe system relief valve pressure.=E2=80=9D=0A=C2=A0= =0AIf the TRV setpoint=0Ais lower than the HPRV and LPRV setpoints I see no= need for the HPRV and LPRV.=0AWhat is their purpose?=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0AI= would like to know how much pressure it takes to keep the=0Awheels in the = wells during a high speed high G pullup. If the relief valve=0Alifts and th= e gear comes out of the wells, it could literally blow the doors=0Aoff the = airplane. If anybody with gauges does a gear test in the next few=0Amonths,= please note the pressure just before the gear tightens up in the wells and= let=0Ame know. Five times that number should be about right.=0ARegards,=0A= Bill Hannahan=0Awfhannahan@yahoo.com=0A=0A=0A______________________________= __=0A From: Chris Zavatson =0ATo: lml@lancaironli= ne.net =0ASent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 11:20 AM=0ASubject: [LML] Re: 3= 20/360 Hydraulic Pressure Switch=0A =0A=0ABill,=0AOur pumps come with the l= owest of three fixed TRV values.=C2=A0 The set-point is 2,500 psi, thus the= statement "approximately 100-140 bar (1500-2000 psi) above the system reli= ef valve pressure" still holds true.=0A=C2=A0=0Are: question three:3=E2=80= =A6 Does the momentum of the motor cause the pressure to spike well above t= he pressure set point?=0AThe pressure does shoot beyond the set point=C2=A0= due to inertia of the motor and pump.=C2=A0 As the hoses etc. stretch in th= e first second or two, the pressure comes back down a bit.=C2=A0 The stiffe= r the system is, the greater the pressure will shoot beyond the set-point.= =C2=A0 On the test bench with a mere 3 feet of hose, the overshoot is quite= a bit greater that in a fully populated aircraft.=0A=C2=A0=0AChris Zavatso= n=0AN91CZ=0A360std=0Awww.N91CZ.net=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0 =0A=0AFrom: Bill Hanna= han =0ATo: lml@lancaironline.net =0ASent: Tuesday, Ja= nuary 31, 2012 3:46 PM=0ASubject: [LML] 320/360 Hydraulic Pressure Switch= =0A=0A =0A=C2=A0=0ARegarding this quote on the trv from the Oildyne brocure= ;=0A=C2=A0=0A=E2=80=9CIt is a fixed relief valve with a pressure=0Asetting = approximately 100-140 bar (1500-2000 psi)=0Aabove the system relief valve p= ressure.=E2=80=9D=0A=C2=A0=0AAs I read this, if the pump is rated to produc= e flow at 3000 psi, the TRV is set for 4500 =E2=80=93 5000 psi. That seems = way too high for our systems.=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0AThe third set of pressure= switches on my 360 are acting up. I am thinking about a spring project to = upgrade them. I bought two new/old stock pressure switches for about $75 in= cluding shipping.=0A=C2=A0=0Ahttp://www.ebay.com/itm/DIRECT-AUTOMATION-PSD2= 5-0P-1450H-PRESSURE-SWITCH-/220904940181?_trksid=3Dp3286.m7&_trkparms=3Dalg= o%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D60059310305622= 48892=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0AThey are limited to 250 ma load current and a max= overload of 2900 psi. My plan is to reset the TRV=E2=80=99s to the neighbo= rhood of 1200 psi. At that pressure motor current is less than 30 amps.=0A= =C2=A0=0AI found 50 amp PNP Darlington transistors to replace the big power= relays. They have enough gain to be driven directly from the pressure swit= ch through an appropriate resistor.=0A=C2=A0=0Ahttp://www.ebay.com/itm/MJ11= 032-Darlington-Power-transistors-NPN-Audio-Amp-x2-/180663839378?pt=3DLH_Def= aultDomain_0&hash=3Ditem2a10676a92=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0AI would appreciate s= ome information from those who have installed pressure gauges. =0A=C2=A0=0A= 1=E2=80=A6 At what pressure does your up pressure switch close and open?=0A= =C2=A0=0A2=E2=80=A6 At what pressure does your down pressure switch close a= nd open?=0A=C2=A0=0A3=E2=80=A6 Does the momentum of the motor cause the pre= ssure to spike well above the pressure setpoint?=0A=C2=A0=0A4=E2=80=A6 In h= igh G pull-ups and/or turbulence, do you see fluctuations in pressure, from= what to what?=0A=C2=A0=0AThanks for your feedback.=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A= =0ARegards,=0ABill Hannahan=0Awfhannahan@yahoo.com=0A=0A--- On Mon, 1/30/12= , Bruce wrote:=0A=0A=0A>From: Bruce = =0A>Subject: [LML] Re: IV-P Hydraulic Pressure Switch=0A>To: lml@lancaironl= ine.net=0A>Date: Monday, January 30, 2012, 12:05 PM=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>You mig= ht look at,=0A>=C2=A0=0A>http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catal= og/Sensors_-z-_Encoders/Pressure_Sensors_-a-_Pressure_Gauges/Pressure_Switc= hes/PSD25-0P-5800H=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Solid state and adjustable, don=E2=80=99t f= orget the matching cable =0A>=C2=A0=0A>Bruce=0A>WWW.Glasair.org =0A>-----Or= iginal Message-----=0A>From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline= .net] On Behalf Of Craig Berland.=0A>Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 10:53 A= M=0A>To: lml@lancaironline.net=0A>Subject: [LML] IV-P Hydraulic Pressure Sw= itch=0A>=C2=A0=0A>A few weeks ago when returning home my main landing gear = failed to extend.=C2=A0 I have determined the pressure switch that controls= the hydraulic pump relay has failed. The kit supplied switch has a minimum= temperature rating of -22 deg F.=C2=A0 Since my switch failed with about 1= 10 hrs on it, has anybody found a better switch?=0A>On a personal note: Whe= n building N7VG, the only thing my wife wanted was her own personal landing= gear lights. She was all over the fact that the mains did not lock down. T= he emergency pump worked and all is well.=0A>Craig Berland=0A>IV-P N7VG=0A>= =C2=A0 ---876930380-262310263-1328242622=:22268 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A=0A
 
=0A=0A
Chris, thanks for=0Athe feedback and the work you did.
=0A=0A
 
=0A=0A
I sense a= =0Acontradiction in this statement;
=0A=0A
 
=0A=0A
[Our pumps come with=0Athe lowest of thr= ee fixed TRV values.  The set-point is 2,500 psi,=0Athus the statement "<= span style=3D"">approximately=0A100-140 bar (1500-2000 psi) above=0Athe system relief valve pressure" = still holds true.]
=0A=0A
 
=0A=0A
I see two=0Ainterpretations.
=0A= =0A
 
= =0A=0A
1=E2=80=A6 The TRV =E2=80= =9Csetpoint=0Ais 2,500 psi=E2=80=9D, presumably referenced to reservoir pre= ssure, which is ambient=0Acabin pressure assuming the reservoir is well ven= ted. Thus the TRV will limit=0Athe output pressure to 2,500 psig max. In th= at case the graphs in the brochure=0Ado not apply for our pumps above 2500 = psi.
=0A=0A
 
=0A=0A
2=E2=80=A6 The TRV setpoint=0Ais =E2=80=9C(1500-2000 psi) above the system relief valve=0Apressu= re.=E2=80=9D I interpret =E2=80=9Csystem relief valve pressure=E2=80=9D to = be the setpoint of the=0Ainternal HPRV or LPRV located upstream of the chec= k valves. These set points=0Aare not specified in the brochure, but the per= formance graphs indicate that the=0AHPRV is at least 3,000 psi which would = make the TRV setpoint 4,500 - 5,000=0Apsig.
=0A=0A 
=0A= =0A
Perhaps you are=0Asaying the T= RV setpoint is 1,500 =E2=80=93 2,000 psi above the pressure switch=0Asetpoi= nt=E2=80=99s, but I was commenting on this quote from the brochure which sa= ys=0Asomething else.
=0A=0A
=  
=0A=0A
=E2=80=9CIt is a fixed relief=0Avalve with a pressure s= etting approximately 100-140 bar (1500-2000 psi) above=0Athe system relief = valve pressure.=E2=80=9D
=0A=0A
 
=0A=0A
= If the TRV setpoint=0Ais lower than the HPRV and LPRV setpoints I see no ne= ed for the HPRV and LPRV.=0AWhat is their purpose?
= =0A=0A
 =0A=0A
 
=0A=0A
I would like to know how much pressure it takes to keep the= =0Awheels in the wells during a high speed high G pullup. If the relief val= ve=0Alifts and the gear comes out of the wells, it could literally blow the= doors=0Aoff the airplane. If anybody with gauges does a gear test in the n= ext few=0Amonths, please note the pressure just before the gear tightens up= in the wells and let=0Ame know. Five times that number should be about rig= ht.
=0A=0A=0A=0A
Regards,
Bill Hannahan
wfhannahan@yahoo.com

From: Chris Zavatson <chris_zavatson@yahoo.com>
= To: lml@lancaironline.net =
Sent: Wednesday, Febr= uary 1, 2012 11:20 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: 320/360 Hydraulic Pressure Switch
=0A
Bill,
=0AOur pumps come with the lowest of three fixed = TRV= values.  The set-point is 2,500 psi, thus the statement "approximately 100-140 bar (1500-2000 psi) above the system relief va= lve pressure" still holds true.
= =0A
 
=0A
<= span style=3D"">re: question three:
=0A
3=E2=80=A6 Does the momentum of t= he motor cause the pressure to spike well above the pressure set point?
=0AThe pressure does shoot beyo= nd the set point due to inertia = of the motor and pump.  As the hoses etc. stretch in the first second = or two, the pressure comes back down a bit.  The stiffer the system is= , the greater the pressure will shoot beyond the set-point.  On the te= st bench with a mere 3 feet of hose, the overshoot is quite a bit greater t= hat in a fully populated aircraft.
=0A
=0A
 
=0A
Chris Zavatson
=0A
N91CZ
=0A
360std
=0A
<= a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.n91cz.net/">www.N91= CZ.net
=0A
 <= /div>
=0A
 
= =0A

=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
From: Bill Hannahan <wfhannahan@yahoo.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
= Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 20= 12 3:46 PM
Subject: [LM= L] 320/360 Hydraulic Pressure Switch
=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A
 
=0A
Regarding this quote on the trv from the Oildyne brocure;
=0A
 
=0A
= =E2=80=9Csetting approximately 100-140 bar (1500-2000 psi= )
=0A
above the system= relief valve pressure.=E2=80=9D
=0A
 
=0A
As I read this, if= the pump is rated to produce flow at 3000 psi, the TRV is set for 4500 =E2=80= =93 5000 psi. That seems way too high for our systems.
=0A
 
=0A
 
=0A
The third set of p= ressure switches on my 360 are acting up. I am thinking about a spring proj= ect to upgrade them. I bought two new/old stock pressure switches for about= $75 including shipping.
=0A
&nbs= p;
=0A
http://www.ebay.com= /itm/DIRECT-AUTOMATION-PSD25-0P-1450H-PRESSURE-SWITCH-/220904940181?_trksid= =3Dp3286.m7&_trkparms=3Dalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26p= s%3D63%26clkid%3D6005931030562248892
=0A
 
=0A
 
= =0A
They are limited to 250 ma load cu= rrent and a max overload of 2900 psi. My plan is to reset the TRV=E2=80=99s t= o the neighborhood of 1200 psi. At that pressure motor current is less than= 30 amps.
=0A
 
=0AI found 50 amp PNP Darlington transistors to = replace the big power relays. They have enough gain to be driven directly f= rom the pressure switch through an appropriate resistor.=0A
 
=0A
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MJ11032-Darlington-Power-transistors-NPN-Audi= o-Amp-x2-/180663839378?pt=3DLH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=3Ditem2a10676a92=0A
 
=0A
 
=0A
= I would appreciate some information from those who have installed pressure = gauges.
=0A
 
=0A
1=E2=80=A6 At what pressure does your up pre= ssure switch close and open?
=0A
=  
=0A
2=E2=80=A6 At what pre= ssure does your down pressure switch close and open?
=0A
 
=0A
3=E2=80=A6 Does the momentum of the motor cause the pressure t= o spike well above the pressure setpoint?
=0A
 
=0A
4=E2=80=A6 = In high G pull-ups and/or turbulence, do you see fluctuations in pressure, = from what to what?
=0A
 =0A
Thanks for your feedback.
= =0A
 
=0A
 


=0A
Regards,
=0A
Bill <= span id=3D"yiv1038266711misspell-25" class=3D"yiv1038266711mark">Hannahan
=0A

--- On Mon, 1/30/12, Bruce <BGray@glasair.or= g> wrote:
=0A

From: Bruce <BGr= ay@glasair.org>
Subject: [LML] Re: IV-P Hydraulic Pressure Switch
= To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Monday, January 30, 2012, 12:05 PM
=0A
=0A=0A= =0A
=0A
=0A
You might look at,
=0A
 
=0A
http://www.automationdirec= t.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Sensors_-z-_Encoders/Pressure_Sensors_-a-_Pressu= re_Gauges/Pressure_Switches/PSD25-0P-5800H
=0A
=  
=0A
Solid state and adjustable, don=E2=80=99t forget the m= atching cable
=0A
=  
=0A=0A
-----Original Message---= --
From: Lancair Mailin= g List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Craig Berland.
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 10:53 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] IV-P Hydraulic Pressur= e Switch
=0A
 
=0A
A few weeks ago when returning home my main l= anding gear failed to extend.  I have determined the pressure switch t= hat controls the hydraulic pump relay has failed. The kit supplied switch h= as a minimum temperature rating of -22 deg F.  Since my switch failed = with about 110 hrs on it, has anybody found a better switch?<= /div>=0A
On a pe= rsonal note: When building N7VG, the only thing my wife wanted was her own = personal landing gear lights. She was all over the fact that the mains did = not lock down. The emergency pump worked and all is well.=0A
Craig Berland
=0A
IV-P N7VG
=0A
 

<= br>
---876930380-262310263-1328242622=:22268--