X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 07:58:10 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mta11.charter.net ([216.33.127.80] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.3) with ESMTP id 5322356 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 15:13:55 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.33.127.80; envelope-from=troneill@charter.net Received: from imp11 ([10.20.200.11]) by mta11.charter.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.02 201-2260-151-103-20110920) with ESMTP id <20111221201320.KJNZ4059.mta11.charter.net@imp11> for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 15:13:20 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([75.132.241.174]) by imp11 with smtp.charter.net id BwDJ1i00K3mUFT705wDJur; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 15:13:20 -0500 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=rvNqJbVGdbt4egs52VbhtoJZG7AoPDG9H2iogr/sNfs= c=1 sm=1 a=Ww5npoe0Pq8A:10 a=yUnIBFQkZM0A:10 a=VxlS/kh5Y2KhHY/Xui1ATg==:17 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=MwWsI94oAAAA:8 a=hOpmn2quAAAA:8 a=wmsvzfMk2G66upUHaFIA:9 a=Y6pCFYMQl-lBu4PWmm4A:7 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=-Zujgq040EwA:10 a=hUswqBWy9Q8A:10 a=RyBVTtxJdrVgmNNt:21 a=jjxihy5DwG3OeAZW:21 a=zjsu_tVZSrjSQBPgn9EA:9 a=Oymne-LZQIP3WR30-x4A:7 a=VxlS/kh5Y2KhHY/Xui1ATg==:117 From: Terrence O'Neill Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-539-446331409 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: MGL back up instrumentr X-Original-Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 14:13:18 -0600 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) --Apple-Mail-539-446331409 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Ah ... I recall; stop the turn (rudder) and then pitch elevator down (if not inverted) to reduce the AOA to below stall = AOA, and then recover with elevator pitching up at max unstalled (see = AOA). Will that do it? Q. has the IVP demonstrated recovery from a fully developed spin at aft = gross? Terrence =20 On Dec 21, 2011, at 1:42 PM, John Barrett wrote: > Let=92s see, > =20 > First concern =96 how close to the ground will I be when I break out = VFR?=20 > =20 > Second concern =96 how will I get the IVP out of the spin I = intentionally initiated? > =20 > Wait a minute! Maybe the second concern should be the first concern. = Or maybe it doesn=92t matter. Maybe it would be best to get mechanical = back up gauges? > =20 > John > =20 > From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = vtailjeff@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 6:41 AM > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Subject: [LML] Re: MGL back up instrumentr > =20 > Terrence, > =20 > You first. ;) > =20 > Jeff=20 >=20 > Sent from my iPad >=20 > On Dec 20, 2011, at 1:11 PM, "Bruce" wrote: >=20 > And if the scud goes down to 200 feet AGL? > =20 > Bruce > WWW.Glasair.org >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Terrence O'Neill > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 9:59 AM > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Subject: [LML] Re: MGL back up instrumentr > =20 > John, > =20 > Good question. I was thinking VFR. > Now you're making me think of IFR. > Well, I recall Jimmy Doolittle's recanting flying his Peashooter over = the overcast to some town in the Andes, which was socked in. So he just = put 'er into a spin, and recovered when he broke out under the clouds. = : ) Simple enough? > So we need part of partial panel: needle, ball, and (no vacuum = required) an AOA vane. =20 > Step on the ball, stop the turn (needle), and hold the = trim-altitude... or AOA. The skid-ball is easy. The problem is the = needle... so I'm wondering if the R/C guys have a pizeo thingey that = shows which way you're turning? =20 > Anyone? > =20 > Terrence > L235/320 N211AL > =20 > =20 > On Dec 20, 2011, at 7:06 AM, John Barrett wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > Terrance, > =20 > A most unorthodox choice of substitute for altimeter and a/s = indicators. These instruments are primarily there as worst case back up = instruments for saving my ass when everything except the engine fails = while in IMC. No more GPS, PFDS etc. Maybe the G496 will still work = off it's battery. If so that may solve the problem but if not? > =20 > A purely mechanical AOA might help me to keep from stalling but how = could I rely on it to get me out of IMC safely? > =20 > John >=20 > Sent from my iPad > =20 >=20 > On Dec 19, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Terrence O'Neill = wrote: >=20 > Lurking, might one quietly suggest that the ultimate backup would be a = simple, mechanical AOA vane on the wing? > That's all you need to keep from stalling, as you can see the ground. > =20 > Terrence > L235/320 N211AL > =20 > =20 --Apple-Mail-539-446331409 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Ah ... I recall;  stop the turn (rudder) and = then
pitch elevator down (if not inverted) to reduce the AOA to = below stall AOA, and then recover with elevator pitching up at max = unstalled (see AOA).
Will that do it?
Q.  has = the IVP demonstrated recovery from a fully developed spin at aft = gross?

Terrence

 
On Dec 21, 2011, at 1:42 PM, John Barrett wrote:

Let=92s = see,
 
First concern =96 how close to = the ground will I be when I break out = VFR? 
 
Second concern =96 how will I get = the IVP out of the spin I intentionally = initiated?
 
Wait a minute!  Maybe the = second concern should be the first concern.  Or maybe it doesn=92t = matter.  Maybe it would be best to get mechanical back up = gauges?
 
John
From: Lancair Mailing List = [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of vtailjeff@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, = 2011 6:41 AM
To:  [LML] Re: MGL back up = instrumentr
And if the scud goes down = to 200 feet AGL?
-----Original Message-----
From: Lancair Mailing List = [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Terrence = O'Neill
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 = 9:59 AM
To:  [LML] Re: MGL back up = instrumentr
Good question. =  I was thinking VFR.
Now you're making me think of = IFR.
Well, I recall Jimmy = Doolittle's recanting flying his Peashooter over the overcast to some = town in the Andes, which was socked in.  So he just put 'er into a = spin, and recovered when he broke out under the clouds.  : ) =  Simple enough?
So we need part of partial panel: needle, ball, and (no = vacuum required) an AOA vane.  
Step on the ball, stop the turn (needle), and hold the = trim-altitude... or AOA.  The skid-ball is easy. The problem is the = needle... so I'm wondering if the R/C guys have a pizeo thingey that = shows which way you're turning?  
Anyone?
L235/320 = N211AL
On Dec 20, 2011, at = 7:06 AM, John Barrett wrote:



A most = unorthodox choice of substitute for altimeter and a/s indicators. =  These instruments are primarily there as worst case back up = instruments for saving my ass when everything except the engine fails = while in IMC.  No more GPS, PFDS etc.  Maybe the G496 will = still work off it's battery. If so that may solve the problem but if = not?
A purely = mechanical AOA might help me to keep from stalling but how could I rely = on it to get me out of IMC = safely?

Sent from = my iPad

On Dec 19, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Terrence O'Neill <troneill@charter.net> = wrote:

Lurking, might one = quietly suggest that the ultimate backup would be a simple, mechanical = AOA vane on the wing?
That's all you need to keep from stalling, as you can see = the ground.
 
Terrence
L235/320 N211AL