Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #59851
From: Steve Richard <steve@oasissolutions.com>
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [LML] Re: Chelton??and more...
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 06:25:24 -0400
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>

Using the same standards for flying as buying a computer can lead to some unintended results. 

 

There is no question that Chelton let the EFIS market slip through their hands to Garmin.  They haven’t updated the software in years.  Same with the screen.  But you have the system in a box and I’ll assume it is already paid for.  So the next question is what do you want out of the equipment you install in your plane.  Here is my list:

 

1.       Simple to operate:  I can show you the basics of the Chelton in about 15 minutes.  The menu system is logical.  Changes are easy to make.  There are very few menu’s that are more than 2-3 items deep.  Most menus have a BACK button to help you fix an incorrect entry.  Re-sequencing is a snap.  When I am in the soup and getting vectored all over the LA Basin, I want something simple and easy to use.  I have seen Garmin people get so lost in their menus that they have to push the CLS button to get back to a known starting point.

2.       Fully integrated ‘highway in the sky’:  HITS makes IFR flying so simple, I can’t even imagine flying an EFIS system without it.  Chelton had this 10 years ago.  Garmin, I believe, just started offering it.  Check to see how easy it is the change an altitude in the flight plan.

3.       Approach charts fully integrated into the flight plan:  There are a few items that Chelton can do that Garmin has not implemented (from my experience and talking to those who have flown the G1000.  Others can chime in and tell me the new software fixes this.)  For example, the Livermore One Departure calls for a climb to 1200, turn right to 020 and intercept the 060 radial from OAK.  The right turn to 020 on the Garmin is by pilot nav only.  The Chelton not only integrates this into the flight plan vertically and horizontally, it drives the autopilot horizontally and vertically (all with easy to follow boxes).  The Garmin disconnects and shows no boxes.

4.       Weather and traffic:  Weather is available (WSI) and more is coming with ADS-B.  Traffic from Garmin’s 330 is poor, but $10k will get you traffic from Avidyne or wait for ADS-B.

5.       Engine monitoring:  The engine monitoring system is from Grand Rapids.  It is basically an EIS 6000.  This system has been around for years and is bullet proof.

6.       No need for extra expensive boxes (480/430/530):  Buy an SL30 for legal VOR/ILS/Localizer approaches.  Then use the Chelton to fly the approach with incredible accuracy and monitor the SL30.  Savings of around $8-13K.

7.       The new technologies (~G500) have some goodies that the Chelton does not, but do I really want everything integrated into one box?  It’s a piece of electronics.  Stuff will happen to both the Chelton and Garmin.  Look at all your failure modes.  If one thing fails, how many other important things go with it.  And how much other stuff are you buying to have as backup. 

 

Grey areas:

1.       Repair:  Chelton has committed to repair the system, if needed.  Of course that could change tomorrow.  But then again, Garmin abandoned the 480 and will someday stop supporting it.  We in the Chelton community are hoping that if Cobham does stop servicing the device, that someone like Brent Regan (who developed the product which eventually ended up in Chelton/Cobham hands) will continue to help us fix things.  Maybe I’m dreaming.  But I know Garmin will stop and there will be no one who can help you.

2.       There is no question that the Chelton does not have the sex appeal of synthetic vision.  I suspect it is nice to be flying IMC and see that you are far away from rocks.  But if you are in the boxes (with a properly setup flight plan), you are safe from the rocks. (Maybe I just don’t want to be scarred by all the nasty stuff I can’t see out the window.)   Maybe others have a use for synthetic vision, but I only have one:  trying to pick a safer spot to land while IMC after engine failure.  I can now get a long way to that goal with my XOOM and AviationMaps.  Not perfect, but pretty good for the price.  Otherwise, if you are VMC, head on a swivel.

 

So, I guess in the end, I’m impressed with the new technology, but it doesn’t add anything to my flight experience that contributes to safety.  From what I have seen it mostly adds confusion and difficulty.  Even the FAA is starting to recognize that the screens give us too much information, most of it we don’t really need to complete our flight safely.

 

If I were building another airplane, I would buy the Chelton again.  Is yours for sale?  ;-)

 

Steve

 

P.S.:  The CheltonEFISpilots forum may be quiet because there are few problems?

 

 

 

 

From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Michael McMahon
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:25 PM
To:
lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Chelton??and more...

 

Steve: Thank you for you question.  For one, talk to the new Garmins?  I’m not aware of anything else they cannot do, but I work in technology and understand how quickly technology ages.  I’m wondering, BEFORE I install them, whether there are OTHER things they can’t or won’t be able to do in the near future.  I can live with using a Garmin 480 or a 530, just the fact that they don’t interoperate with the new Garmins reignited my curiosity about the current capabilities of a system that was designed about 8 years ago.  How many people are still using the same laptop or phone they had 8 years ago?

 

Michael

 

From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Steve Richard
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 9:37 AM
To:
lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Chelton??and more...

 

http://www.cheltonefispilots.com/forums/index.php

 

 

What do you want to do that the Chelton can’t do?

 

Steve

 

From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Michael McMahon
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 4:50 AM
To:
lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Chelton??and more...

 

I have a dual screen experimental version still in the shipping box, unopened.  Does anyone know if there are plans to make the Chelton talk to the new Garmins?  I’ve searched online and haven’t been able to find an active Chelton user group or forum and I’m evaluating whether it’s worth installing the Chelton system or has the technology evolved enough to make them outdated?  If anyone knows a more appropriate forum for this question, please pass it on.

 

Thanks,

 

Michael


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