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I don't want to try to take y'all into the weeds too far,
but this thread has been very enlightening and maddening
to think of, and this week I also saw this link (see link
below) regarding changes to passport applications they're
trying to push through. It's just amazing that we allow
our liberties to be infringed on in so many aspects, with
unreasonable levels of regulation.
I stuck a quote from the link under the link for you,
but it may be an interesting read, for those of you who
travel with your plane and use your passport occasionally.
http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/state-dept-wants-to-make-it-harder-to-get-a-passport/
The U.S. Department of State is proposing a new Biographical Questionnaire for some passport applicants: The proposed new Form DS-5513 asks for all addresses since birth; lifetime employment history including employers’ and supervisors names, addresses, and telephone numbers; personal details of all siblings; mother’s address one year prior to your birth; any “religious ceremony” around the time of birth; and a variety of other information. According to the proposed form, “failure to provide the information requested may result in … the denial of your U.S. passport application.”
Tim
On 5/3/2011 6:53 AM, swaid rahn wrote:
Hello All,
Rick and Jeff, could you please fwd a copy of your letters and a copy
of the CBP Guidelines. I would like to post them at our local airports
around Savannah Ga. and make a presentation at our EAA Chapter meeting
about our freedom encroachments.
Thanks,
Swaid
On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Rick Titsworth
<rtitsworth@mindspring.com <mailto:rtitsworth@mindspring.com>> wrote:
Jeff, etal
A minor account, for additional background…
Last summer (early August sometime shortly after Osh), I was
questioned by two CBP officers upon landing at MCD (Mackinac Island,
Michgan) on an otherwise routine non-stop solo local/domestic flight
from my homebase, Y47 in the Detroit area in my C172. They wanted
to see my ID, and ask a couple questions on where I was coming from,
if I had been out the country, etc. They asked if I had the
registration, but did not request that I pull it out of the plastic
pocket on the side panel. It was not much of an event, and the
questions were not very invasive. I did provide my ID and minimally
cooperative answers, all while I continued to tie-down, post flight,
and unload my bag. They were in casual plain cloths, but did show
me their ID’s and were cordial.
In speaking with my wife who was waiting for me at the small airport
building, she indicated that they were waiting there before hand,
but also did the same to another plane that landed before me while
she was waiting – so they were apparently not focusing on any
specific planes. Having overhead their conversation while she was
waiting, they were up there for a few days doing “audits” a couple
hours a day, AND STAYING AT THE MACHINAC GRAND HOTEL (5 star
$400-600 per night, 2 night min). http://www.grandhotel.com
<http://www.grandhotel.com/> and enjoying the island.
This is really a very unnecessary boondoggle…
MCD is a small (vacation/tourist) island 3 miles off the Michgan
shore only accessible by ferry/boat (or plane) and a fairly
expensive place to stay. The airport is within the state park
boundary, operated by the state, staffed by a park ranger who
records all tail numbers, and has a landing fee (but no services, no
fuel nor FBO). It is not a high volume airport (untowered), but can
by relatively busy on nice weekends in the summer. Needless to say,
this is probably the LAST place anyone would seek to bring a
fugitive into the country or any other potential nefarious
activity. There are tons of remote, unattended, and more easily
accessible airports in northern Mich, were you could probably land
(stop&go) from Canada, below radar coverage (since they can’t ever
provide flight following, nor radar vectors, below ~4,500ft). FYI,
there is even a bunch of Class G in the Mich Upper Peninsula also
(not just out west) – so you can legally fly in IMC without an IFR
flight plan and not talking to anyone - if you believe in the big
sky theory (I didn’t say it was safe).
Anyway the key point is, we don’t need to be paying for these hacks
to vacation at the GRAND in Aug while on the dole under the context
of CBP aviation audits! What a waste of our CBP funding/resources,
especially when there’s a boarder that actually needs policing.
Rick
p.s. Afterwards, I decided if I ever got stopped (audited) again, I
would politely have them right down their names, badge
numbers/credentials and office contact info for me, after showing
them my ID, but before considering answering additional questions.
p.p.s I also plan on posting a copy of the CBP Guide to Law
Enforcement… on the bulletin board of every airport I land at. That
should get some grass-roots pilots stirred up out there.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:*Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net
<mailto:lml@lancaironline.net>] *On Behalf Of *vtailjeff@aol.com
<mailto:vtailjeff@aol.com>
*Sent:* Saturday, April 23, 2011 12:24 PM
*To:* lml@lancaironline.net <mailto:lml@lancaironline.net>
*Subject:* [LML] Re: beware, you may be searched!
Guys & gals,
We appreciate your help. This Constitutional problem with Customs
and Border Patrol (CBP) and similar Federal agencies has been
brewing for a while and will not go away overnight. American
citizens are not the bad guys. GA pilots are not terrorists. You may
recall the 12,500# Program that TSA wanted to extend to small
aircraft two years ago. It was successfully fought by many in GA.
But this win was a small one for us and we must be ever vigilant to
protect our freedom to fly.
As a retired military officer and flier, I can tell you that CBP has
put together a large air force and intelligence network and is using
it against law abiding U.S. citizens. They are even advertising this
capability on their own website. Unfortunately, they appear to be
beyond the reach of our elected officials. The fax that we managed
to secure and post on this list shows us they view GA as a security
problem. As mentioned on an earlier post--they are not interested in
answering their bosses (us) questions regarding these intrusions on
our personal liberties. I have spent many hours researching this
issue and racked up numerous hours on the phone mustering support.
This latest attack on GA and our personal liberties occurred at my
home airport, involved a good friend of mine who now owns an
airplane I built, and was conducted at my hangar.
Where we stand today: I have met with our local law enforcement
officials who have conducted these searches based on phone calls
from CBP. They are not happy with CBP. CBP has wasted a considerable
amount of their time and made them out to be the bad guys which they
are not. It will probably be a long time before CBP calls our local
police force. Make contact with your local police agencies and
advise them of this nonsense --an ounce of prevention is worth a
pound of cure. The LOBO Board has been reaching out to our friends
and allies in GA. I have contacted Congressman Sam Graves'
office---he is the chairman of the GA caucus in the House of
Representatives. Contact you Congressman and Senator, as well. I
have connected with Jim Campbell who has published the pilot's
account in www.aeronews.net <http://www.aeronews.net/>. Today, I
have had dialogue with AOPA and their VP for Operations, Mr. Craig
Spence who will be meeting with CBP next week about this issue. I
will ask him to invite our VP-- Bob Pastusek, COL USAF (ret.) to
attend. AOPA is now giving this issue their top priority. Please
give AOPA and Mr. Spence your support and respect. If you have
anything else to report post it here or send it to me directly at
vtailjeff@aol.com <mailto:vtailjeff@aol.com>. I would appreciate
hearing from anyone else who has had this sort of treatment from our
Federal employees-- remember ---they work for us.
Best Regards,
Jeff Edwards
President,
-----Original Message-----
From: Kent <kent@tulsaconnect.com <mailto:kent@tulsaconnect.com>>
To: lml@lancaironline.net <mailto:lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, Apr 22, 2011 12:56 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: beware, you may be searched!
i passed the copy to a friend and here is what he wrote back:
I just called that number, 866-247-2878 <tel:866-247-2878>.
I was handed off to Tony Martinez <sp> who said he was an aviation
enforcement specialist at the Air and Marine Operations Center in
Riverside,
Calif.
Based on the beeping I heard on the line, I assume the telephone
call was
recorded.
He wanted to know who I was and who I represented or was "with."
I gave him my first and last name and said I'm simply a pilot in
Florida.
The Reader's Digest version of our conversation, taken from memory:
I explained I had some questions about a document -- the one in
question --
and read its title to him.
He asked where I got the document.
I said someone gave it to me. More importantly, I added, several of
the six
document requirements are almost certainly incorrect, mentioning #5
(pilot's
logbook) and #6 (Form 337). I pointed out these aren't FAA requirements.
He said Form 337s are paperwork for modifications to the aircraft
and must
be in the aircraft.
I said I thought the only Form 337 that must be carried in the
aircraft was
one for the installation of extra fuel tanks.
He said I should contact the FAA with my concerns.
I said this is a Dept of Homeland Security guide, not an FAA
document, so I
didn't think the appropriate action was to contact the FAA.
He said he was more concerned about where I got the document.
I explained I was worried I'd be confronted by law-enforcement
officers at
an airport and would run into problems because I wasn't carrying all
the
documents listed in the guide.
He said this was a "guide" and "they'll be talking to us." Further
back-and-forth made me realize he meant the officers would be in
real-time
contact with Martinez's facility during such a confrontation.
I said this might not be the case, and I mentioned the John and
Martha King
incident and one recently at a St. Louis airport, where the police
thought
the aircraft was carrying a federal fugitive when in fact it
contained a
lieutenant colonel in the Air Force Reserves who flew F22s.
I asked who in the DHS I should contact to get the guide corrected.
He said
I could send my input to his facility.
He again mentioned his concern about my having a copy of the doc.
How do we push back against this? AOPA seems too distracted selling
wine to
act on our behalf.
----------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
*From:*vtailjeff@aol.com <mailto:vtailjeff@aol.com>
*To:*lml@lancaironline.net <mailto:lml@lancaironline.net>
*Sent:*Thursday, April 21, 2011 10:10 PM
*Subject:*[LML] Re: beware, you may be searched!
Here is a copy of a fax CBP sent. See if you can find the
mistakes! I am a bit surprised they believe they can detain you
if you do not have your pilot logbook onboard. LOL!!!!
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Rickard <r.rickard@rcginc-us.com
<mailto:r.rickard@rcginc-us.com>>
To: lml@lancaironline.net <mailto:lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wed, Apr 20, 2011 11:49 am
Subject: [LML] Re: beware, you may be searched!
We were able to get a copy of the fax that was sent to the local
police. The “Tip” came from Customs and Border Patrol in CA.
And the local Police chief was actually /apologetic /because he
knew it was bogus. The tip itself is BS. They made it up. IF
they had been watching me or investigating me they would have
known my wife was with me and not some dude. That is the only
part that is really a violation, they are making up an excuse to
get the locals excited, and then seeing what they find. Another
example was a guy accused of transporting computer chips that
were stolen. I can imagine them making up stories over the
coffee in the morning.
How would the public react if any Fed agency routinely made up
tips so the cops would come to your house and want to search?
Imagine the news coverage. That is the same thing going on
here. If they have something on you, then absolutely go for
it. But they did not in the 3 cases we know about just at our
local airport.
The lesson you derived is correct though. Know your rights, and
also know how you can help them do their job without violating
your rights. That is the best thing you can do (if innocent)
while saying the least amount possible.
Bob R
*From:*Lancair Mailing List [_mailto:lml@lancaironline.net_
<mailto:lml@lancaironline.net?>] *On Behalf Of *William Wilson
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:05 AM
*To:* _lml@lancaironline.net_ <mailto:lml@lancaironline.net>
*Subject:* [LML] Re: beware, you may be searched!
Seems pretty standard to me. They checked out a tip that proved
to be bogus. I don't see any rights violations here or anything
out of the ordinary.
The main lesson IMO is that, while there are plenty of cops who
abuse power, for the most part if you behave in a civilized
manner and realize they are just trying to do their job, most of
them will treat you fairly. That seems to be what happened here.
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Bob Rickard
<_r.rickard@rcginc-us.com_ <mailto:r.rickard@rcginc-us.com>> wrote:
Fellow LML’ers
It seems inevitable that the govt will search you at some
point. Just some info on what happened to me yesterday, you can
hopefully use this to react appropriately for your situation.
This is the third incident just at our little airport in
Missouri of this happening…..
Bob Rickard
IV-P
On 18 April, 2011, I filed IFR from KGEU to K1H0 direct, with my
wife on board. At 0845L, I departed KGEU VFR and picked up my
filed IFR clearance to K1H0 at FL210 with ABQ center. The
flight was uneventful and I cancelled IFR approximately 10 miles
from K1H0 with St. Louis Approach and landed at 1443L. Upon
landing and taxi to my hanger (P3) at Creve Coeur Airport, I was
surrounded by 6 Maryland Heights Police cars and about 10
officers. I exited the plane and was approached by the
supervisor and asked if I had any identification. I produced my
military ID (I am a LtCol in the Air Force Reserve flying
F-22’s) as well as my driver’s license, and asked the supervisor
what the problem was. He told me that he got a “tip” from the
Federal Government that there may be a federal fugitive on board
by the name of Robert Mcrae. He wasn’t sure of the name and
asked me if I knew anyone by a name similar to that, to which I
answered “no” to all. He also stated that he was surprised to
see a woman in the plane with me since his informant said there
would be two men in the plane. I inquired as to who would give
a tip like that, and he was vague. A this point my wife exited
the plane and was asked to produce her ID as well and was
questioned as to what we were doing and where we were going and
where we came from. It was apparent to the supervisor pretty
quickly that my wife and I were not federal fugitives as they
ran our ID’s, but he asked to search the airplane anyway. I
told him that I was aware of my rights and he could not search
anything without a warrant, and he was quick to add “or your
permission” and “I could have the dogs come out”. (side note –
they don’t need a warrant to have the dogs check out your
aircraft – if the dogs find something and indicate, then they
have probable cause to search you without a warrant. If the
dogs find nothing they cannot search your aircraft until a
warrant is issued). I told him that I would play nice, had
nothing to hide, and that my plan was to take my belongings out
of the airplane and put them in my car to go home, and I would
allow him to see what I took out and visually see inside the
cockpit and baggage compartment, but I was not allowing a search
of the airplane. He agreed to this. I took my 2 pieces of
luggage out of the back and showed him the contents briefly (not
a complete search but opened up the zipper and showed clothes on
top) as well as the couple of vases we had bought in Phoenix and
lunch/sodas we had in the cockpit. They saw nothing of interest
and returned my wife’s ID, but kept mine and made further
calls. The supervisor indicated “I’m on overtime, I am outta
here” and left, but another officer checked with “EPIC” (unsure
of the spelling) which he told me was an international
consortium that traded information on travel, etc. He told me
he was aware of my trip earlier this year to Mexico and the
Cayman Islands (honeymoon cruise) but there was nothing to get
me in trouble. He then returned my ID and let us go.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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--
Swaid L. Rahn
Indigo Aviation, Inc.
940 Mock Road
Springfield, Ga. 31329
Cell 912.655.0966
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