X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 20:54:16 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma03.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.41] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4963575 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 01 May 2011 19:20:55 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.206.41; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from imo-da02.mx.aol.com (imo-da02.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.200]) by imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p41NKF65026501 for ; Sun, 1 May 2011 19:20:15 -0400 Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-da02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.1045.64195cc (43834) for ; Sun, 1 May 2011 19:20:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic-m17.mail.aol.com (magic-m17.mail.aol.com [172.21.147.70]) by cia-dc02.mx.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILCIADC027-ab3a4dbdeaaa336; Sun, 01 May 2011 19:20:10 -0400 From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 19:20:10 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Beware update X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_fcbb1.5dd16605.3aef44aa_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 130 X-AOL-IP: 24.15.17.119 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Sky2high@aol.com --part1_fcbb1.5dd16605.3aef44aa_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amen Grayhawk In a message dated 5/1/2011 5:51:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time, scottekeighan@sympatico.ca writes: I have been following with interest these CBP based incidents. As a Canadian looking from the outside in I see a government agency gone astray. The United States is slowing becoming a communist state. I travel into the United States once or twice every week and have seen the security/knowledge of your border agencies grow exponentially since 9/11. Big brother is watching more and more every day. The CBP and TSA should be concentrating at the borders not within your own Country. I know there are some bad guys within the U.S. but if the CBP is doing it's job they should have all been stopped before they set foot on U.S. soil. I see too much power by one agency whom answers to no one all in the name of national security, pity. Scott Keighan LIV ____________________________________ To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 13:00:37 -0400 From: vtailjeff@aol.com Subject: [LML] Re: Beware update As most of you on the list know we had an incident in April here in St. Louis where one of our own was "stopped" by local police based on a "tip" from Customs and Border Patrol. Here is an update to that story: Bob Rickard (who was the individual stopped) and I have received more emails from other Lancair pilots who have been stopped as well based on "tips" from CBP. So this is not an isolated incident. I contacted AOPA, my congressman's staff, and CBP themselves. AOPA's Craig Spence is presently working this issue on our behalf. He already had ascheduled meeting with CBP on Wednesday, so he brought this subject up. He said that CBP wants to be the new "skycop". He conveyed our concerns to them --targeting GA for poloce searches and the issue of the fax that is sent to police agencies justifying detaining pilots. Mr. Spence told them that the fax has errors on it and agreed to help them correct those. On the issue of tracking GA flights and detaining pilots, Mr. Spence said the CBP is not budging. He believes we need to take this to Congressional leaders --he said we are in for a long battle with CBP. The day after Mr. Spence's meeting I received two phone calls from CBP (so it is true about smelly stuff rolling downhill). The first call was from "Carlos" at CBP HQ. Carlos works in Gen. Mike Kostelnik's office in DC. Kostelnik, a retired AF two star, is the head of the CBP Air and Marine Center. Carlos wanted to know what our concerns were and I repeated that we did not like getting stopped based on bogus information. He wanted to know how I was certain CBP was behind these stops (he implied they had nothing to do with it) and I said it was from information from the local police and the fax AMOC sent to them. (Ah, the truth and evidence is so great) He was pretty agitated during our conversation and said if we were stopped and the police questioned us then we should tell them what they wanted to know. I said I disagreed (Fifth Amendment) . I gave him the specifics of Bobaloos stop two weeks ago and he agreed to look into it. I said that in the best light their intell is either unvetted or their analyis is poor. He disagreed (of course) and gave many other reasons (all bogus) as to why their intel was good. He said it could have been because the aircraft was a prior drug aircraft. I replied that would be pretty difficult since I built it, flew it and then sold it to Col. Rickard. I said that in the worst light --their folks are making up stories to get the local police to stop GA pilots--for the crime of ....flying. Of course he about blew a gasket. I asked him to tell me where CBP got this information about Bob carrying a fugitive. He replied that is a matter of national security and could not tell me. A couple of hours later I receive a phone call from Tony C. at the CBP AMOC in Riverside, CA asking again about my concerns. Again I expressed the same and while he was very polite and cordial and appears to be a dedicated public servant doing a tough job I reiterated that law abiding GA pilots do not enjoy getting stopped by law enforcement based on seemingly bogus information. Tony said they are just trying to "put their eyes on people"--meaning us. I remarked that there has to be a better way of doing that than surrounding a pilot with 6 police cars and ten officers. He said they have tough job catching bad guys. I said that that they need to do a better job screening their intel. It seemed both he and Carlos went back and forth on whether the intel came from internal sources or external ones. At one point he said people were calling their hotline with tips -- so I challenged him as to how someone would know the Mr. McCrae was on Bob's airplane and then called them in Riverside to report it. The story seemed to change to they had strong intel internally. Never an admission that they screwed up. Just more reasons why their intel is solid. Even at one point denying it is their intel-- "it comes from somewhere else-- they are just the middle man." Tony said they are all ex military and are all pilots so I pointed oujt that the fax has numerous errors and the FARs contains no language allowing detention of a pilot for failing to have his medical or logbook on his person (look for that to change as CBP will probably write criminal regulations re: pilots) . The whole time I could hear a beep every ten seconds or so probably indicating I was being recorded. Althoug Tony was pleasant there was no progress on this issue. None. I spoke with my congressman's senior staffer as well. I relayed the details of the issue to her and she seemed sincerely interested. She said it is best to generate a letter from our organizations (we are) and forward that with a personal note to all of our congressmen. She said I should be carefull so that I don't become a target. All for now. Jeff "Bullseye" Edwards = --part1_fcbb1.5dd16605.3aef44aa_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Amen
 
Grayhawk
 
In a message dated 5/1/2011 5:51:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 scottekeighan@sympatico.ca writes:

I=20 have been following with interest these CBP based incidents.  As a= =20 Canadian looking from the outside in
I see a government agency gone= =20 astray.  The United States is slowing becoming a communist state.&n= bsp; I=20 travel
into the United States once or twice every week and have seen= the=20 security/knowledge of your border agencies
grow exponentially si= nce=20 9/11.  Big brother is watching more and more every=20 day.  The CBP and TSA should be
concentrating at the border= s not=20 within your own Country.  I know there are some bad guys within the= U.S.=20 but
if the CBP is doing it's job they should have all been stopp= ed=20 before they set foot on U.S. soil. 
 
I see too much po= wer by=20 one agency whom answers to no one all in the name of national security,= =20 pity.
 
Scott Keighan
LIV

To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 13:00:37 -0400
Fro= m:=20 vtailjeff@aol.com
Subject: [LML] Re: Beware update


As most of you on the list know we had an incident in April her= e in=20 St. Louis where one of our own was "stopped" by local police based on a= "tip"=20 from Customs and Border Patrol. Here is an update to that story:
 
Bob Rickard (who was the individual stopped) and I have received mo= re=20 emails from other Lancair pilots who have been stopped as well based on= "tips"=20 from CBP. So this is not an isolated incident. I contacted AOPA, my=20 congressman's staff, and CBP themselves. AOPA's Craig Spence is presentl= y=20 working this issue on our behalf. He already had ascheduled  meetin= g with=20 CBP on Wednesday, so he brought this subject up. He said that CBP wants= to be=20 the new "skycop".  He conveyed our concerns to them --targeting GA= for=20 poloce searches and the issue of the fax that is sent to police agencies= =20 justifying detaining pilots. Mr. Spence told them that the fax has error= s on=20 it and agreed to help them correct those. On the issue of tracking GA fl= ights=20 and detaining pilots, Mr. Spence said the CBP is not budging. He believe= s we=20 need to take this to Congressional leaders --he said we are in for a lon= g=20 battle with CBP.
 
The day after Mr. Spence's meeting I received two phone calls from= CBP=20 (so it is true about smelly stuff rolling downhill). The first call was= from=20 "Carlos" at CBP HQ. Carlos works in Gen. Mike Kostelnik's office in DC.= =20 Kostelnik, a retired AF two star,  is the head of the CBP Air and= Marine=20 Center. Carlos wanted to know what our concerns were and I repeated that= we=20 did not like getting stopped based on bogus information. He wanted to kn= ow how=20 I was certain CBP was behind these stops (he implied they had nothing to= do=20 with it) and I said it was from information from the local police and th= e fax=20 AMOC sent to them. (Ah, the truth and evidence is so great)  He was= =20 pretty agitated during our conversation and said if we were stopped and= the=20 police questioned us then we should tell them what they wanted to know.= I said=20 I disagreed (Fifth Amendment) . I gave him the specifics of Bobaloos sto= p two=20 weeks ago and he agreed to look into it.  I said that in the best= light=20 their intell is either unvetted or their analyis is poor. He disagr= eed=20 (of course) and gave many other reasons (all bogus) as to why their inte= l was=20 good. He said it could have been because the aircraft was a prior drug= =20 aircraft. I replied that would be pretty difficult since I built it, fle= w it=20 and then sold it to Col. Rickard. I said that in the worst light --their= folks=20 are making up stories to get the local police to stop GA pilots--for the= crime=20 of ....flying. Of course he about blew a gasket. I asked him to=20  tell me where CBP got this information about Bob carrying&nbs= p;a=20 fugitive. He replied that is a matter of national security and could not= tell=20 me.
 
A couple of hours later I receive a phone call from Tony C. at the= CBP=20 AMOC in Riverside, CA asking again about my concerns. Again I expressed= the=20 same and while he was very polite and cordial and appears to be a dedica= ted=20 public servant doing a tough job I reiterated that law abiding GA pilots= do=20 not enjoy getting stopped by law enforcement based on seemingly bogus=20 information. Tony said they are just trying to "put their eyes on=20 people"--meaning us. I remarked that there has to be a better way= of=20 doing that than surrounding a pilot with 6 police cars and ten officers.= He=20 said they have  tough job catching bad guys. I said that  that= they=20 need to do a better job screening their intel. It seemed both he and Car= los=20 went back and forth on whether the intel came from internal sources or= =20 external ones. At one point he said people were calling their hotline wi= th=20 tips -- so I challenged him as to how someone would know the Mr. McCrae= was on=20 Bob's airplane and then called them in Riverside to report it. The story= =20 seemed to change to they had strong intel internally. Never an admission= that=20 they screwed up. Just more reasons why their intel is solid. Even at one= point=20 denying it is their intel-- "it comes from somewhere else-- they are jus= t the=20 middle man." Tony said they are all ex military and are all pilots so I= =20 pointed oujt that the fax has numerous errors and the FARs contains= no=20 language allowing detention of  a pilot for failing to have his med= ical=20 or logbook on his person (look for that to change as CBP will probably= write=20 criminal regulations re: pilots) . The whole time I could hear a&nb= sp;=20 beep every ten seconds or so probably indicating I was being recorded.= Althoug=20 Tony was pleasant there was no progress on this issue. None.
 
I spoke with my congressman's senior staffer as well. I relayed the= =20 details of the issue to her and she seemed sincerely interested. She sai= d it=20 is best to generate a letter from our organizations (we are) and forward= that=20 with a personal note to all of our congressmen.  She said= I=20 should be carefull so that I don't become a target.
 
All for now.
 
Jeff "Bullseye"=20 Edwards
=3D
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