X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 20:54:16 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.69] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4963676 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 01 May 2011 20:45:23 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.69; envelope-from=colyncase@earthlink.net DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=kWS0QtikYoQ4Uuv1K2MPyiHsthSYnAVL+32SHLoCL3htBZr1vIoJTNwHwMJQFZLI; h=Received:From:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:To:References:Message-Id:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [216.57.118.194] (helo=[192.168.1.102]) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1QGhFp-0004gJ-5l for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 01 May 2011 20:44:49 -0400 From: Colyn Case Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-32--427625999 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Beware update X-Original-Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 20:44:48 -0400 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: <12CEEEAC-7C32-43C0-B8C9-90624CDFA5C4@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) X-ELNK-Trace: 63d5d3452847f8b1d6dd28457998182d7e972de0d01da94004bb7543e48be9aa419bb855c4a6e0c2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.57.118.194 --Apple-Mail-32--427625999 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jeff, thanks for doing all that. =20 Do you know what the purpose of the CBP calls was? It obviously was = not to make you feel more comfortable. So action on our part should be to write our Congressmen and include = this letter(s) that is in the works? Exactly where does CBP report to? e.g. who is their boss? Colyn On May 1, 2011, at 1:00 PM, vtailjeff@aol.com wrote: >=20 > As most of you on the list know we had an incident in April here in = St. Louis where one of our own was "stopped" by local police based on a = "tip" from Customs and Border Patrol. Here is an update to that story: > =20 > Bob Rickard (who was the individual stopped) and I have received more = emails from other Lancair pilots who have been stopped as well based on = "tips" from CBP. So this is not an isolated incident. I contacted AOPA, = my congressman's staff, and CBP themselves. AOPA's Craig Spence is = presently working this issue on our behalf. He already had ascheduled = meeting with CBP on Wednesday, so he brought this subject up. He said = that CBP wants to be the new "skycop". He conveyed our concerns to them = --targeting GA for poloce searches and the issue of the fax that is sent = to police agencies justifying detaining pilots. Mr. Spence told them = that the fax has errors on it and agreed to help them correct those. On = the issue of tracking GA flights and detaining pilots, Mr. Spence said = the CBP is not budging. He believes we need to take this to = Congressional leaders --he said we are in for a long battle with CBP. > =20 > The day after Mr. Spence's meeting I received two phone calls from CBP = (so it is true about smelly stuff rolling downhill). The first call was = from "Carlos" at CBP HQ. Carlos works in Gen. Mike Kostelnik's office in = DC. Kostelnik, a retired AF two star, is the head of the CBP Air and = Marine Center. Carlos wanted to know what our concerns were and I = repeated that we did not like getting stopped based on bogus = information. He wanted to know how I was certain CBP was behind these = stops (he implied they had nothing to do with it) and I said it was from = information from the local police and the fax AMOC sent to them. (Ah, = the truth and evidence is so great) He was pretty agitated during our = conversation and said if we were stopped and the police questioned us = then we should tell them what they wanted to know. I said I disagreed = (Fifth Amendment) . I gave him the specifics of Bobaloos stop two weeks = ago and he agreed to look into it. I said that in the best light their = intell is either unvetted or their analyis is poor. He disagreed (of = course) and gave many other reasons (all bogus) as to why their intel = was good. He said it could have been because the aircraft was a prior = drug aircraft. I replied that would be pretty difficult since I built = it, flew it and then sold it to Col. Rickard. I said that in the worst = light --their folks are making up stories to get the local police to = stop GA pilots--for the crime of ....flying. Of course he about blew a = gasket. I asked him to tell me where CBP got this information about Bob = carrying a fugitive. He replied that is a matter of national security = and could not tell me. > =20 > A couple of hours later I receive a phone call from Tony C. at the CBP = AMOC in Riverside, CA asking again about my concerns. Again I expressed = the same and while he was very polite and cordial and appears to be a = dedicated public servant doing a tough job I reiterated that law abiding = GA pilots do not enjoy getting stopped by law enforcement based on = seemingly bogus information. Tony said they are just trying to "put = their eyes on people"--meaning us. I remarked that there has to be a = better way of doing that than surrounding a pilot with 6 police cars and = ten officers. He said they have tough job catching bad guys. I said = that that they need to do a better job screening their intel. It seemed = both he and Carlos went back and forth on whether the intel came from = internal sources or external ones. At one point he said people were = calling their hotline with tips -- so I challenged him as to how someone = would know the Mr. McCrae was on Bob's airplane and then called them in = Riverside to report it. The story seemed to change to they had strong = intel internally. Never an admission that they screwed up. Just more = reasons why their intel is solid. Even at one point denying it is their = intel-- "it comes from somewhere else-- they are just the middle man." = Tony said they are all ex military and are all pilots so I pointed oujt = that the fax has numerous errors and the FARs contains no language = allowing detention of a pilot for failing to have his medical or = logbook on his person (look for that to change as CBP will probably = write criminal regulations re: pilots) . The whole time I could hear a = beep every ten seconds or so probably indicating I was being recorded. = Althoug Tony was pleasant there was no progress on this issue. None. > =20 > I spoke with my congressman's senior staffer as well. I relayed the = details of the issue to her and she seemed sincerely interested. She = said it is best to generate a letter from our organizations (we are) and = forward that with a personal note to all of our congressmen. She said I = should be carefull so that I don't become a target. > =20 > All for now. > =20 > Jeff "Bullseye" Edwards --Apple-Mail-32--427625999 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Jeff, = thanks for doing all that.   

Do you know = what the purpose of the CBP calls was?   It obviously was not to = make you feel more comfortable.

So action on our = part should be to write our Congressmen and include this letter(s) that = is in the works?

Exactly where does CBP report = to?  e.g. who is their = boss?

Colyn

On May 1, = 2011, at 1:00 PM, vtailjeff@aol.com wrote:


As most of you on the list know we had an incident in April here in St. = Louis where one of our own was "stopped" by local police based on a = "tip" from Customs and Border Patrol. Here is an update to that = story:
 
Bob Rickard (who was the individual stopped) and I have received = more emails from other Lancair pilots who have been stopped as well = based on "tips" from CBP. So this is not an isolated incident. I = contacted AOPA, my congressman's staff, and CBP themselves. AOPA's Craig = Spence is presently working this issue on our behalf. He already had = ascheduled  meeting with CBP on Wednesday, so he brought this = subject up. He said that CBP wants to be the new "skycop".  He = conveyed our concerns to them --targeting GA for poloce searches and the = issue of the fax that is sent to police agencies justifying detaining = pilots. Mr. Spence told them that the fax has errors on it and agreed to = help them correct those. On the issue of tracking GA flights and = detaining pilots, Mr. Spence said the CBP is not budging. He believes we = need to take this to Congressional leaders --he said we are in for a = long battle with CBP.
 
The day after Mr. Spence's meeting I received two phone calls from = CBP (so it is true about smelly stuff rolling downhill). The first call = was from "Carlos" at CBP HQ. Carlos works in Gen. Mike Kostelnik's = office in DC. Kostelnik, a retired AF two star,  is the head of the = CBP Air and Marine Center. Carlos wanted to know what our concerns were = and I repeated that we did not like getting stopped based on bogus = information. He wanted to know how I was certain CBP was behind these = stops (he implied they had nothing to do with it) and I said it was from = information from the local police and the fax AMOC sent to them. (Ah, = the truth and evidence is so great)  He was pretty agitated during = our conversation and said if we were stopped and the police questioned = us then we should tell them what they wanted to know. I said I disagreed = (Fifth Amendment) . I gave him the specifics of Bobaloos stop two weeks = ago and he agreed to look into it.  I said that in the best light = their intell is either unvetted or their analyis is poor. He = disagreed (of course) and gave many other reasons (all bogus) as to why = their intel was good. He said it could have been because the aircraft = was a prior drug aircraft. I replied that would be pretty difficult = since I built it, flew it and then sold it to Col. Rickard. I said that = in the worst light --their folks are making up stories to get the local = police to stop GA pilots--for the crime of ....flying. Of course he = about blew a gasket. I asked him to  tell me where CBP = got this information about Bob carrying a fugitive. He replied that = is a matter of national security and could not tell me.
 
A couple of hours later I receive a phone call from Tony C. at the = CBP AMOC in Riverside, CA asking again about my concerns. Again I = expressed the same and while he was very polite and cordial and appears = to be a dedicated public servant doing a tough job I reiterated that law = abiding GA pilots do not enjoy getting stopped by law enforcement based = on seemingly bogus information. Tony said they are just trying to "put = their eyes on people"--meaning us. I remarked that there has to = be a better way of doing that than surrounding a pilot with 6 = police cars and ten officers. He said they have  tough job catching = bad guys. I said that  that they need to do a better job screening = their intel. It seemed both he and Carlos went back and forth on whether = the intel came from internal sources or external ones. At one point he = said people were calling their hotline with tips -- so I challenged him = as to how someone would know the Mr. McCrae was on Bob's airplane and = then called them in Riverside to report it. The story seemed to change = to they had strong intel internally. Never an admission that they = screwed up. Just more reasons why their intel is solid. Even at one = point denying it is their intel-- "it comes from somewhere else-- they = are just the middle man." Tony said they are all ex military and are all = pilots so I pointed oujt that the fax has numerous errors and the = FARs contains no language allowing detention of  a pilot for = failing to have his medical or logbook on his person (look for that to = change as CBP will probably write criminal regulations re: = pilots) . The whole time I could hear a  beep every ten = seconds or so probably indicating I was being recorded. Althoug Tony was = pleasant there was no progress on this issue. None.
 
I spoke with my congressman's senior staffer as well. I relayed the = details of the issue to her and she seemed sincerely interested. She = said it is best to generate a letter from our organizations (we are) and = forward that with a personal note to all of our = congressmen.  She said I should be carefull so that I don't = become a target.
 
All for now.
 
Jeff "Bullseye" Edwards

= --Apple-Mail-32--427625999--