X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 11:35:09 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from p3plsmtpa01-07.prod.phx3.secureserver.net ([72.167.82.87] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2a) with SMTP id 4821312 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 21 Jan 2011 00:35:24 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=72.167.82.87; envelope-from=hwasti@lm50.com Received: (qmail 30918 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2011 05:34:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (207.170.226.183) by p3plsmtpa01-07.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (72.167.82.87) with ESMTP; 21 Jan 2011 05:34:48 -0000 X-Original-Message-ID: <4D391AF1.9010404@lm50.com> X-Original-Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:34:41 -0800 From: Hamid Wasti User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Lithium Batteries References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael McMahon wrote: > > I do not want to start an argument, but it is frustrating for people > to say they don't like ideas based on out-of-date or incomplete data. > It is even more frustrating when people proposed ideas based on incomplete data. Your "EV guru" friends are correct, you do not HAVE to cell balance a pack, but only as long as you are willing to live with the limitations imposed by that choice. Do you know what those limitations are? When you have a number of cells of any chemistry in series in a battery pack, they all receive exactly the same current when charging. Some cells are a little more efficient than others so they get fully charged before their colleagues in the string. If at that point they continue to receive charging current, they will over-charge. Some chemistries are able to handle this over-charging. Other chemistries like LiPo are very intolerant of this over charging and quite literally blow up. Cell balancing attempts to make sure that the charge on each of the cells in the string is identical so they all get fully charged at the same time, maximizing the charge that the pack can hold. That maximum number is the one everyone throws around and that is the number you will expect to get from your battery pack. As I mentioned, you do not HAVE to cell balance. For a LiPo or LiFe pack, you can just monitor the voltage on each individual cell and stop charging when one of the cells gets fully charged. Over time, the discrepancy in th charge state between the most efficient and the least efficient cell in the string will keep increasing, with the usable capacity of the entire pack being controlled by the charge in the least efficient cell. Taking this to the theoretical extreme, at some point the pack will not be able to deliver any energy because one cell will be fully charged and another will be fully discharged. In real life, you will declare the pack useless and stop using it before you get to that point. If you are willing to live with this diminishing capacity, then cell balancing is indeed not required. Just remember that your pack is no longer going to have the same capacity as the pack that has cell balancing and you must design the rest of your system to account for that. Quoting the late Paul Harvey: Now you know the rest of the story. Regards, Hamid