X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 07:37:37 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from web80007.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ([69.147.92.108] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.9) with SMTP id 4494264 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 15:31:43 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.147.92.108; envelope-from=bu131@swbell.net Received: (qmail 44305 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Oct 2010 19:31:07 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=swbell.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=uGIwS13XU4oiM+A42PuS8Sq5sEf6xopUvX1iHk5z4XFfz4MgxhA+G7GQW5cc9p/DHduKdvJsl7y2X+9epuALpR5MrdHc7iiVQcJGpPOCE/qpw2QztGfqK9wgIWMAfUGrs+dGf/9felqprebLujCuyJbS/gCsu0ZTi1hCQBmfWEg=; X-Original-Message-ID: <693577.40132.qm@web80007.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: .M1LrfsVM1k6F3QlmxemYJOY0u4ou_As9I_IbW0kJ8Ds9jY ZlCX4Xwr38fTneSh7XFiaOdnXUVJ54WWG1e2Qo62eBCVN_yNMBKo2WmnKBNs E_IHxHO0AhwWGJjBJN.Ue6H0qi4Hazxrz._lgFDiMiwXSHITWsHEe8sNIn4_ 7DAtWT2fNJIW6dCP6mjcg1GeLrUzZg4lD0IrLvxSnanNllG2lk5dpUy2Uy8w sTJwTycanxdewi35MXB3xMmxiuF30mAmCv2frFAppHZ_ZBkk45egL_4BQyY1 60IH1T2tpnx.4ppwryxggHTW.dQLa7ST1Eqyyq8_mjSMGijjA8jhmFb9T5YE UtE2wFUq9aZfPABiVoqMNf_Xz Received: from [70.254.187.254] by web80007.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 12:31:07 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/497 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 References: X-Original-Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 12:31:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Dr Andre Katz Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Tree Landings X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-685783515-1286307067=:40132" --0-685783515-1286307067=:40132 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable having crashed in a tree inverted i have a soft spot for trees, the only = =0Ainjuries=C2=A0=C2=A0were the rib fracture produced by the ground when i = unstrapped to =0Aavoid becoming a crispy critter (and my pride of course). = Last i remember it =0Awas=C2=A0 that the fuel line=C2=A0had =C2=A0separated= . I had to pay the farmer for the burned =0Atree. Be kind to a tree day=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Mark Ravinski =0ATo: lml@lancaironline.net=0ASent: Tue, October 5, 2010 6:49:5= 1 AM=0ASubject: [LML] Re: Tree Landings=0A=0A=0AMichael,=0AI agree that tre= etops may be preferable to hard obstacles if those are your only =0Achoices= .=0AHowever, trees are not as soft when you are in a Lancair as in a glider= .=0AAn "off the top of my head" estimate would be double the approach speed= , double =0Athe weight and half the wingspan - compared to a glider.=0ATher= e is much less chance of being caught by the branches and therefore, there = =0Amight be a second, uncontrolled crash from falling out of the treetops.= =0AAlso, you are not going to burn in a glider crash.=0A=C2=A0=0AIn the ser= vice, I know of a T-37 that landed in a cornfield.=C2=A0The pilots walked = =0Abut the plane was=C2=A0destroyed by impact with cornstalks.=C2=A0 Landin= g speed of about =0A60 -70 kts.=C2=A0 4000 lb aluminum airplane.=0A=C2=A0= =0AAnd I know of one Lancair 360 piloted by a very good friend, Jim Rogers,= that =0Awent down in scrub oak trees.=C2=A0 Video shows a very controlled = descent.=C2=A0 Jim died =0Ain the fire.=0A=C2=A0=0AMy plan will be to avoid= hard obstacles - the best way I can.=0A=C2=A0=0AMark Ravinski=0A360=C2=A0= =C2=A0 1488 hrs=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: Michael Newman =0A= >To: lml@lancaironline.net =0A>Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:06 AM=0A>Su= bject: [LML] Tree Landings=0A>=0A>=0A>It may be counter intuitive but treet= ops are actually =E2=80=98soft=E2=80=99. They bend and =0A>absorb energy ov= er a fairly long period compared to other ground obstructions. I =0A>would = favor landing in dense trees over a field full of stumps and rocks.=0A>=C2= =A0=0A>It is well known in the glider community that tree-top landings resu= lt in pilots =0A>that walk away and surprisingly light aircraft damage as l= ong as the plane =0A>maintains flying speed all the way in. I have personal= ly picked up after two of =0A>these and know of four others. In only one ca= se was there any injury to the =0A>pilot and that was minor. Dense trees ar= e preferred because falling to the =0A>ground after the =E2=80=98landing=E2= =80=99 is where the people can get injured.=0A>=C2=A0=0A>=C2=A0=0A>=0A_____= ___________________________=0A=0A>Michael Newman Dragonnorth Group =0A>401 = Sandy Valley Road=0A>Westwood, MA 02090 Cell: 617 821-4608=0A>Home: 617 566= -7975=0A>Fax: 617 566-7975 =0A>www.dragonnorth.com mnewman@dragonnorth.com = =0A>=C2=A0=0A>=C2=A0=0A________________________________=0A=0A>No virus foun= d in this incoming message.=0A>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com =0A>Version: 9.= 0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3176 - Release Date: 10/04/10 =0A>02:35:00= =0A> --0-685783515-1286307067=:40132 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
having crashed in a tree inverted i have a soft spot= for trees, the only injuries  were the rib fracture produced by = the ground when i unstrapped to avoid becoming a crispy critter (and my pri= de of course). Last i remember it was  that the fuel line had &nb= sp;separated. I had to pay the farmer for the burned tree. Be kind to a tre= e day
=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: M= ark Ravinski <mjrav@comcast.net>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 6:49:51 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: Tree Landings
<= BR>=0A=0A=0A
Michael,
=0A
I agree that tree= tops may be preferable to hard obstacles if those are your only choices.
=0A
However, trees are not as sof= t when you are in a Lancair as in a glider.
=0A
An "off the top of my head" estimate would be double the = approach speed, double the weight and half the wingspan - compared to a gli= der.
=0A
There is much less cha= nce of being caught by the branches and therefore, there might be a second,= uncontrolled crash from falling out of the treetops.
=0A
<= FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Also, you are not going to burn in a glider cras= h.
=0A
 
=0AIn the service, I know of a T-37 that landed= in a cornfield. The pilots walked but the plane was destroyed by= impact with cornstalks.  Landing speed of about 60 -70 kts.  400= 0 lb aluminum airplane.
=0A
 
=0A
And I know of one Lanca= ir 360 piloted by a very good friend, Jim Rogers, that went down in scrub o= ak trees.  Video shows a very controlled descent.  Jim died in th= e fire.
=0A
 
= =0A
My plan will be to avoid hard obstacles= - the best way I can.
=0A
 
=0A
Mark Ravinski=0A
360   1488 hrs
= =0A
=0A
----- Original Message -----
=0A=0ATo: lml@lancaironline.net
=0A
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:06 AM=0A
Subject: [LML] Tree Landings=0A

=0A
=0A

I= t may be counter intuitive but treetops are actually =E2=80=98soft=E2=80=99= . They bend and absorb energy over a fairly long period compared to other g= round obstructions. I would favor landing in dense trees over a field full = of stumps and rocks.

=0A

 

=0A

It is well known in the glider community that tree-top landings resu= lt in pilots that walk away and surprisingly light aircraft damage as lo= ng as the plane maintains flying speed all the way in. I have personall= y picked up after two of these and know of four others. In only one case wa= s there any injury to the pilot and that was minor. Dense trees are preferr= ed because falling to the ground after the =E2=80=98landing=E2=80=99 is whe= re the people can get injured.

=0A

 

=0A

 

=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A

Michael Newman

=0A

Dragonnorth Group

=0A

401 Sandy Valle= y Road
Westwood, MA 02090

=0A

Cell: 617 821-4608
Home: 617 566-7975
Fax: 617 566-7975

=
=0A

www.dragonnorth.com

= 		=0A

mnewman@dragonnorth.com=

=0A

 

=0A

 

=0A

=0A

=0A=0A


No virus found i= n this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 27= 1.1.1/3176 - Release Date: 10/04/10 02:35:00
--0-685783515-1286307067=:40132--