X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 07:49:51 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.69] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.9) with ESMTP id 4493206 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 04 Oct 2010 22:20:47 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.69; envelope-from=colyncase@earthlink.net DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=tEGlDK//lI/uVUNGkDGTG275bz/pMOzrWbS4FcbavTIjRjcmZh8ylZ73QbWYGPhy; h=Received:From:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:To:References:Message-Id:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [216.57.118.85] (helo=[192.168.1.100]) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1P2x8V-0001Gr-12 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 04 Oct 2010 22:20:11 -0400 From: Colyn Case Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-222-847848873 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: "FLAPS" Warning Voice X-Original-Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 22:20:10 -0400 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: <4A183CA1-2595-4281-8EB9-DA7BB5D114A1@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-ELNK-Trace: 63d5d3452847f8b1d6dd28457998182d7e972de0d01da9409287c9f502db68ca4c711b785014bbbd350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.57.118.85 --Apple-Mail-222-847848873 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Bob,=20 I was thinking the same thing. Mine kicks in at 9 degrees which is effectively "when any flaps are = selected" I'm thinking this is bad because 10 degrees is the takeoff setting so = you are getting optimistic readings vs. full flaps. =20 On the other hand you are full power (normally). an IMC go round is exactly this situation. Colyn On Oct 4, 2010, at 8:47 PM, Robert R Pastusek wrote: > Colyn, > I installed my sensing switch (per Jim Frantz) so it activates the = =93Flaps=94 annunciation, and goes to the =93flaps down=94 AOA = configuration as soon as the flaps start moving from the full up = position. These functions are both controlled by the flap sensing = switch and can=92t be triggered independently as far as I know. > =20 > I believe that at a given weight and airspeed, the wing generates more = lift but the same angle of attack indication on the AOA (pressure = differential between upper and lower wing sensing ports) with the flaps = down. If you calibrate the AOA system to =93flaps down=94 stall speed, = it will be at a lower indicated airspeed than when the flaps are up. > =20 > This means that when the AOA system goes into =93flaps down=94 = indicating mode, it will be showing =93on speed=94 and =93stall=94 at a = lower indicated airspeed than that at which the airplane will actually = stall with partial flaps. It would indicate the correct stall AOA only = at the position it was calibrated (flaps full down). > =20 > I therefore think the most conservative installation would be to = switch the system to =93flaps down mode=94 when the flaps are fully = down. As a practical matter, if I were doing mine again, I=92d set the = switch to change when the flaps go past 20 degrees=85or more = specifically, when they change from moving aft to rotating down. > =20 > There is another way to do this. You can calibrate the AOA at any = airspeed (within reason) and configuration (flaps up, flaps partial, or = flaps down) you chose. The machine simply displays AOA measurements that = you=92ve previously told it were stall AOA=92s in various = configurations, so you can make it repeat these back to you at the = speed/configuration you chose. I am not advocating creative = installation/calibration here, just understanding what you are actually = calibrating this very good system to show=85 > =20 > My two cents=85 >=20 > Bob > =20 > Posted for Colyn Case : >=20 > while we're on this, I'm interested where others, especially IVP = owners, put=20 > their flap switch for the AOA, and what the AOA really does with that=20= > information. Roughly speaking, it's going to store separate pressure = curves=20 > for flaps on and flaps off. but which would be most conservative: > a) put the switch so that it detects ANY flaps > b) 10 degrees > c) 20 degrees > d) full > =20 > My thought was to put it at 12 degrees or so. > =20 > Colyn >=20 > [Having worked many airshows with Jim Frantz, the developer of the AOA = Pro, the standard answer to your question was to install the flap switch = so it actuates with any flap actuation. It simplifies the installation = and is the most conservative setting. FWIW.... ] >=20 >=20 > =20 > On Oct 3, 2010, at 7:46 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote: > =20 > > John, > > There is a microswitch on the flap torque shaft that tells the AOA = Pro that > > you have lowered flaps. It dutifully tells you that it knows that = by > > announcing "Flaps!". It that is happening over and over, you have a = loose > > connection or short or bad switch. > >=20 > > It is located somewhere under the seats. > >=20 > > Let us know what you find. > >=20 > > Bill B > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf = Of John > > Hafen > > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:05 PM > > To: lml@lancaironline.net > > Subject: [LML] "FLAPS" Warning Voice > >=20 > > Gents, > >=20 > > I have a IVP with duel Cheltons and an AOA Pro. Taxiing out, after = lowering > > my flaps to 10 degrees for takeoff, I get a random "FLAPS" voice = warning in > > the headset. =20 > >=20 > > After takeoff and raising the flaps, the voice mercifully goes away. > >=20 > > Back in the pattern, with the flaps down, the voice warning starts = up again. > > It squawks if I have one, two, or three notches of flaps down. > >=20 > > On roll-out, after the flaps are retracted, the warnings cease. > >=20 > > Question for the group: How do I make the voice warning go away? > >=20 > > My AOA is calibrated, and I've been all through the Chelton setup = screens to > > no avail. > >=20 > > Please let me know what I'm missing. > >=20 > > Thanks in advance. > >=20 > > John Hafen > > IVP 413AJ > > 275 hours > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > -- > > For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html > >=20 > >=20 > > -- > > For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html > =20 > -- > =20 > For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html --Apple-Mail-222-847848873 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Bob, 

I was thinking the = same thing.
Mine kicks in at 9 degrees which is effectively = "when any flaps are selected"
I'm thinking this is bad because = 10 degrees is the takeoff setting so you are getting optimistic readings = vs. full flaps.   
On the other hand you are full = power (normally).

an IMC go round is exactly = this = situation.

Colyn

On Oct = 4, 2010, at 8:47 PM, Robert R Pastusek wrote:

I installed my sensing switch (per Jim Frantz) so it = activates the =93Flaps=94 annunciation, and goes to the =93flaps down=94 = AOA configuration as soon as the flaps start moving from the full up = position.  These functions are = both controlled by the flap sensing switch and can=92t be triggered = independently as far as I know.
I believe that at a given weight and airspeed, the = wing generates more lift but the same angle of attack indication on the = AOA (pressure differential between upper and lower wing sensing ports) = with the flaps down. If you calibrate the AOA system to =93flaps down=94 = stall speed, it will be at a lower indicated airspeed than when the = flaps are up.
 
This means that when the AOA = system goes into =93flaps down=94 indicating mode, it will be showing = =93on speed=94 and =93stall=94 at a lower indicated airspeed than that = at which the airplane will actually stall with partial flaps. It would = indicate the correct stall AOA only at the position it was calibrated = (flaps full down).
 
I therefore think the most = conservative installation would be to switch the system to =93flaps down = mode=94 when the flaps are fully down. As a practical matter, if I were = doing mine again, I=92d set the switch to change when the flaps go past = 20 degrees=85or more specifically, when they change from moving aft to = rotating down.
 
There is another way to do this. = You can calibrate the AOA at any airspeed (within reason) and = configuration (flaps up, flaps partial, or flaps down) you chose. The = machine simply displays AOA measurements that you=92ve previously told = it were stall AOA=92s in various configurations, so you can make it = repeat these back to you at the speed/configuration you chose. I am not = advocating creative installation/calibration here, just understanding = what you are actually calibrating this very good system to = show=85
 
My two = cents=85

Bob
 
Posted for = Colyn Case < 
their flap switch for = the AOA, and what the AOA really does with that 
information.   = Roughly speaking, it's going to store separate pressure curves 
for flaps on and flaps = off.   but which would be most conservative:
 a) put = the switch so that it detects ANY flaps
 b) 10 = degrees
 c) 20 degrees
 d) full
 
 My = thought was to put it at 12 degrees or = so.
 
 Colyn

[Having worked many airshows with = Jim Frantz, the developer of the AOA Pro, the standard answer to your = question was to install the flap switch so it actuates with any flap = actuation.  It simplifies the installation and is the most = conservative setting.  FWIW.... <Marv>   = ]


 
 On Oct 3, 2010, at 7:46 PM, Bill Bradburry = wrote:
 
> John,
> There is a microswitch on the = flap torque shaft that tells the AOA Pro that
> you have lowered = flaps.  It dutifully tells you that it knows that by
> = announcing "Flaps!".  It that is happening over and over, you = have a loose
> connection or short or bad switch.
> 
> It is located = somewhere under the seats.
> 
> Let us know what = you find.
> 
> Bill = B
> 
> = -----Original Message-----
> From: Lancair Mailing List = [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of John
> Hafen
> = Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:05 PM
> To: lml@lancaironline.net
> = Subject: [LML] "FLAPS" Warning Voice
> 
> = Gents,
> 
> = I have a IVP with duel Cheltons and an AOA Pro.  Taxiing out, = after lowering
> my flaps to 10 degrees for takeoff, I get a = random "FLAPS" voice warning in
> the = headset.  
> 
> After takeoff and = raising the flaps, the voice mercifully goes away.
> 
> Back in the = pattern, with the flaps down, the voice warning starts up again.
> = It squawks if I have one, two, or three notches of flaps = down.
> 
> = On roll-out, after the flaps are retracted, the warnings = cease.
> 
> = Question for the group:  How do I make the voice warning go = away?
> 
> = My AOA is calibrated, and I've been all through the Chelton setup = screens to
> no avail.
> 
> Please let me know = what I'm missing.
> 
> Thanks in = advance.
> 
> John Hafen
> = IVP 413AJ
> 275 hours
> 
> 
> 
> --
> For = archives and unsub  
> 
> --
> For = archives and unsub --
For archives and unsub