X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:16:14 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.4) with ESMTP id 4174428 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 22 Mar 2010 09:39:58 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=super_chipmunk@roadrunner.com X-Original-Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=y7puNLmBh80A:10 a=Yp2a5TMhWyIhswdzH4wA:9 a=LVFkwNO40pHoCTNJMNb7P6oBqfQA:4 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=9vnYR8im1F_fDhgaewYA:9 a=tM9UwBqrjTYk7QBf2LkA:7 a=rjmuo2-mXiycM5YbSH9APXq-XaEA:4 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 74.65.190.246 Received: from [74.65.190.246] ([74.65.190.246:60302] helo=Laptop) by cdptpa-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id 2F/31-05956-80377AB4; Mon, 22 Mar 2010 13:39:21 +0000 X-Original-Message-ID: From: "Bill Wade" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: More on Ed Smith's accident X-Original-Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 09:39:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_033B_01CAC9A3.8EECB450" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_033B_01CAC9A3.8EECB450 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I did some calculations- don't forget that the prop FELL OFF. That and = the loss of oil changed the W&B immediately and dramatically. I don't know how the plane was loaded so I used W&B figures for a IV-P = that Lancair had sent me and added guesses of my own for fuel and = baggage:=20 Weight Arm Mom = Station Empty- 2377 214876 = 90.40 Pilot- 170 98 16660 Co-pilot- 170 98 16660 50 gal fuel 300 94.8 28440 25# backseat 25 129 3225 _________________________________________________________ Total 3042 279,861 = 91.99 So far so good. Now lose the prop. Prop- 78 9 (est) 702 Spinner 2 9 18 Flange & bolts 2 12 (est) 24 8 qt oil 14 30 (est) 420 _____________________________________________ 96 1,164 ____ ______ Result: 2946 278,697 = 94.6 I estimated the weight of the spinner and flange, the prop weight is = Hartzell's value for a PHC-H3YF. I also made my best guess of the arms = from Hartzell and TCM info. Oil is a guesstimate based on what I use in = an IO-550. The CG limits for a IV-P are 86.5- 94.5. If the Smiths weighed more than 340# combined or if they had baggage = in the rear the results would've been worse. Now imagine you're trying to fly a plane that's out of the envelope, = has known stall issues, and keeps trying to raise its nose. All you = could do would be to keep speed up to maintain elevator authority. In = addition, the engine oil would have immediately pumped out of the = crankshaft onto the windshield until the engine seized up. I hope I never have to try to match Ed's accomplishment. I don't know = what the situation was on the beach but I think there was a combination = of circumstances that led to the tragedy through nobody's fault. -Bill = Wade ------=_NextPart_000_033B_01CAC9A3.8EECB450 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
  I did some calculations- don't = forget that=20 the prop FELL OFF. That and the loss of oil changed the W&B = immediately and=20 dramatically.
 
  I don't know how the plane was = loaded so I=20 used W&B figures for a IV-P that Lancair had sent me and added = guesses of my=20 own for fuel and baggage:
 
          =           =20 Weight        =20 Arm           &nbs= p;   =20 Mom           &nbs= p;     Station
 
Empty-         = =20 2377           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;      =20 214876           &= nbsp;      90.40
 
Pilot-         =      =20 170           &nbs= p;=20 98            = ;    16660
 
Co-pilot-        &nb= sp;  170         &= nbsp;   98        =        =20 16660
 
50 gal=20 fuel        =20 300           =20 94.8           &nb= sp;  28440
 
25# = backseat      =20 25          129 &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;   =20 3225
_________________________________________________________
 
Total         &= nbsp;     =20 3042           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;   =20 279,861           =     =20 91.99
 
So far so good. Now lose the = prop.
 
Prop-         &= nbsp;      =20 78            = ; =20 9 = (est)           &n= bsp;=20 702
 
Spinner         = ;      =20 2            =  =20 9            =          =20 18
 
Flange & = bolts     =20 2            = 12=20 (est)           &n= bsp;  =20 24
 
8 qt=20 oil           &nbs= p;  =20 14            = ; 30=20 (est)           &n= bsp; 420
_____________________________________________
 
          =             &= nbsp; =20 96            = ;            =          =20 1,164
          =              = ____           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;      =20 ______
 
Result:         = ;  =20 2946           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;      =20 278,697           =   =20 94.6
 
I estimated the weight of the = spinner and=20 flange, the prop weight is Hartzell's value for a PHC-H3YF. I also = made my=20 best guess of the arms from Hartzell and TCM info. Oil is a guesstimate = based on=20 what I use in an IO-550. The CG limits for a IV-P are 86.5-=20 94.5.
 
  If the Smiths weighed more = than 340#=20 combined or if they had baggage in the rear the results would've = been=20 worse.
 
 Now imagine you're trying to fly = a plane=20 that's out of the envelope, has known stall issues, and keeps trying to = raise=20 its nose. All you could do would be to keep speed up to maintain = elevator=20 authority. In addition, the engine oil would have immediately = pumped out of=20 the crankshaft onto the windshield until the engine seized = up.
 
  I hope I never have to try to = match Ed's=20 accomplishment. I don't know what the situation was on the beach but I = think=20 there was a combination of circumstances that led to the tragedy through = nobody's fault.  -Bill=20 Wade          =20
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