X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 22:28:15 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-out1.fuse.net ([216.68.8.175] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3874349 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 04 Oct 2009 22:14:24 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.68.8.175; envelope-from=dreagan@fuse.net X-Original-Return-Path: X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=Jf3tspjE8XI4z6saXnuFbjgHz4WKruKDsdWNlYDB8z0= c=1 sm=0 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=8eHaDzIod9Rn6ldu-X8A:9 a=X2WCa0-oRiAbmLIlnvgA:7 a=nXAwFGlxZ3OZTSYrC3SipkvmNpsA:4 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=yp1WgQwndjLNS0LF:21 a=fZGyVrMSrkQ9V_le:21 a=5Up8faWwAAAA:8 a=yPWLQiuJAAAA:8 a=loPHZZsjCrIHPJCQpR4A:9 a=1mCnRU-5MGg9WAnSKCkA:7 a=omxRKSMAGeODoGdN5sJ6iH5SQnIA:4 a=v6MMM96S_sUA:10 a=n9v6eNlbjnUA:10 a=sWtFweITu6ZTLQGg:21 a=AacBC0RUZeyO5uQ1:21 a=mHW60jSo8mBs1lKdtGbqVg==:117 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine Authentication-Results: ecout1 smtp.mail=dreagan@fuse.net; spf=unknown Received-SPF: error (ecout1: 208.102.196.40 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of fuse.net Received: from [208.102.196.40] ([208.102.196.40:50495] helo=D45LWMF1) by ecout1 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.43 r()) with ESMTP id 94/D6-02412-C5659CA4; Sun, 04 Oct 2009 22:13:48 -0400 X-Original-Message-ID: <005801ca4561$75ef6d10$fdc8a8c0@D45LWMF1> From: "Dan Reagan" X-Original-To: References: Subject: Re: [LML] High #2 CHT on a IVP X-Original-Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 22:13:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0055_01CA453F.EEB7A770" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01CA453F.EEB7A770 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am getting the 43.5 at wide open throttle at 38.5 inches. I will = check the 32 gallons at 31.5" and 2500. I have the standard TCM injectors which are all the same size. After testing today I found that #2, #4, and #6 all peak about the same = time. Number 1, 3, and 5 seem to peak at about the same time. The fuel = flow difference from first to peak and last to peak looks to be about .6 = gallons per hour. (this is at 23" and 2500 rpm) It seems strange that = all on the left side peak first but then I don't know a lot about the = workings of this engine. The air flowing around #2 is well managed. It flows properly around the = back and is directed well around the bottom. I don't know the answer to the "degrees the hottest egt is below peak = when at full rich". I think I am about to the point of investigating the setting lean of = peak that will give good tit's and good cht's. I sure can't get any = speed while running rich of peak and I know the heat is not good for the = engine. I really really appreciate the input to this problem. =20 Dan Reagan ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Colyn Case at earthlink=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 5:07 AM Subject: Re: [LML] High #2 CHT on a IVP Dan, There's no reason you can't get a non-fadec engine to have reasonable = cooling. I think you got some other change along with this engine. - I agree with Craig on fuel flow. Do you get the 43.5 wide open? If = not, I would fix that first. Then are you getting the 32 at 31.5? - 375 for the other cylinders is also high which is another reason to = suspect FF is too low. - you really don't want #2 to be first to peak so you want more flow = on that injector. Do you have gami jectors? - You didn't mention the gami spread between #2 and the others. (gph = fuel flow between when #2 peaks and the others). - re: the oil cooler, is the air actually flowing through the fins on = #2 or escaping around the back. you also want flow guides under the back of #2 to force the air to flow through the bottom fins - 400 in cruise is extreme. how many degrees is your hottest egt = below peak when you are full rich? you should be able to get 150-200 dF = rich of peak if you want it. When you lean it, tit will go past 1700 = dF near peak. you have to go to the other side of peak. to get it to = come back down. it would be worth knowing if there is a mixture setting = on the lean side that will get your tit down and your cht's e.g. in the = < 350 range. Colyn ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Craig Berland=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 8:36 PM Subject: [LML] High #2 CHT on a IVP Dan, my engine is doing the same thing. One thing to try is putting = your "last" to peak injector in #2 cylinder. #2 is the hardest cylinder = to cool in my plane as well. This may cause you to fly quite lean if = you cruise "lean of peak. Two, check your fuel rate at 2500 rpm and 31.5 = inHg. I think at full rich it should be approx 32 gph and mine is way = below that. I have 43.5 gph at 2700 rpm and 38.4 inHg. It appears I = may need to pull the fuel pump and check the calibration. I'm trying to = find fuel flow rate data for the TSIO550 right now. Craig Berland IV-P N7VG The current engine I have is brand new with approximately 20 hours = on it. It has a standard mixture control and replaced the previous = FADEC controlled engine. I can not seem to correct my number 2 CHT problem. The previous = engine did not seem to have the problem to this extent. The mod of = building a recess in the oil cooler plenum was done long ago.=20 I cannot climb with 31.5" MP, full rich without #2 hitting 400F at = about 11,000 feet. Climb speed is 165 knots. Today's ground temp was = 70F. I have made a clear path for the air by relocating hoses, spark = plug leads, brackets and anything that might disturb the cooling air. = The only thing left to move is the air conditioning hoses which are = right in the way of the air as it enters the cowling. All the baffling is very tight and everything is the same as was on = the other engine. Has any one had to use a larger injector to keep number 2 cool. = Number 2 EGT is the first to peak. All the other 5 CHT's run within 3 = degrees of each other with number 2 being about 25 degrees higher. = EGT's are running in the 1450 range with #2 being the hottest. Straight and level at 17,000 feet indicating over 200 knots the #2 = CHT will stay just under 400 degrees 31.5" and full rich. When I try = to lean it out the TIT's start above 1650. Has anyone got any suggestions? I will be looking at the injectors tomorrow. I wonder what the trade in value of a slightly used red knob control = cable is? Dan Reagan IVP 670 hours and wishing I had my FADEC back ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01CA453F.EEB7A770 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am getting the 43.5 at wide open = throttle at 38.5=20 inches.  I will check the 32 gallons at 31.5" and = 2500.
 
I have the standard TCM injectors which = are all the=20 same size.
 
After testing today I found that #2, = #4, and #6 all=20 peak about the same time.  Number 1, 3, and 5 seem to peak at about = the=20 same time.  The fuel flow difference from first to peak and last to = peak=20 looks to be about .6 gallons per hour. (this is at 23" and 2500 = rpm) It=20 seems strange that all on the left side peak first but then I don't know = a lot=20 about the workings of this engine.
 
The air flowing around #2 is well = managed.  It=20 flows properly around the back and is directed well around the=20 bottom.
 
I don't know the answer to the "degrees = the=20  hottest egt is  below peak when at full rich".
 
I think I am about to the point of = investigating the setting lean of peak that will give good tit's and = good=20 cht's.  I sure can't get any speed while running rich of peak and I = know=20 the heat is not good for the engine.
 
I really really appreciate the input to = this=20 problem. 
 
Dan Reagan
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Colyn=20 Case at earthlink
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 = 5:07=20 AM
Subject: Re: [LML] High #2 CHT = on a=20 IVP

Dan,
There's no reason you can't get a = non-fadec=20 engine to have reasonable cooling.  I think you got some other = change=20 along with this engine.
- I agree with Craig on fuel = flow.  Do you=20 get the 43.5 wide open?  If not, I would fix that first.  = Then are=20 you getting the 32 at 31.5?
- 375 for the other cylinders is also = high which=20 is another reason to suspect FF is too low.
- you really don't want #2 to be = first to peak so=20 you want more flow on that injector.   Do you have gami=20 jectors?
- You didn't mention the gami spread = between #2=20 and the others. (gph fuel flow between when #2 peaks and the=20 others).
- re: the oil cooler, is the air = actually flowing=20 through the fins on #2 or escaping around the back.  you also = want flow=20 guides
under the back of #2 to force the air = to flow=20 through the bottom fins
- 400 in cruise is = extreme.  how many=20 degrees is your hottest egt below peak when you are full rich?  = you=20 should be able to get 150-200 dF rich of peak if you want=20 it.    When you lean it, tit will go past 1700 dF near=20 peak.   you have to go to the other side of peak. to = get it to=20 come back down.  it would be worth knowing if there is a mixture = setting=20 on the lean side that will get your tit down and your cht's e.g. in = the <=20 350 range.
 
Colyn
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Craig=20 Berland
Sent: Saturday, October 03, = 2009 8:36=20 PM
Subject: [LML] High #2 CHT on = a=20 IVP

Dan, my engine is doing the same thing.  One = thing to try=20 is putting your "last" to peak injector in #2 cylinder.  #2 is = the=20 hardest cylinder to cool in my plane as well.  This may cause = you to=20 fly quite lean if you cruise "lean of peak. Two, check your fuel = rate at=20 2500 rpm and 31.5 inHg. I think at full rich it should be approx 32 = gph and=20 mine is way below that.  I have 43.5 gph at 2700 rpm and 38.4=20 inHg.  It appears I may need to pull the fuel pump and check = the=20 calibration.  I'm trying to find fuel flow rate data for the = TSIO550=20 right now.
Craig = Berland
IV-P = N7VG
The current engine I have is brand = new with=20 approximately 20 hours on it.  It has a standard mixture = control and=20 replaced the previous FADEC controlled engine.
 
I can not seem to correct my number = 2 CHT=20 problem.  The previous engine did not seem to have the problem = to this=20 extent.  The mod of building a recess in the oil cooler plenum = was done=20 long ago.
 
I cannot climb with 31.5" MP, = full rich=20 without #2 hitting 400F at about 11,000 feet.  Climb speed is = 165=20 knots.  Today's ground temp was 70F.  I have made a clear = path for=20 the air by relocating hoses, spark plug leads, brackets and anything = that=20 might disturb the cooling air.  The only thing left to move is = the air=20 conditioning hoses which are right in the way of the air as it = enters the=20 cowling.
 
All the baffling is very tight and = everything=20 is the same as was on the other engine.
 
Has any one had to use a larger = injector to=20 keep number 2 cool.  Number 2 EGT is the first to peak.  = All the=20 other 5 CHT's run within 3 degrees of each other with number 2 being = about=20 25 degrees higher.  EGT's are running in the 1450 range with #2 = being=20 the hottest.
 
Straight and level at 17,000 feet = indicating=20 over 200 knots the #2 CHT will stay just under 400 degrees  = 31.5" and=20 full rich.  When I try to lean it out the TIT's start above=20 1650.
 
Has anyone got any = suggestions?
 
I will be looking at the injectors=20 tomorrow.
 
I wonder what the trade in value of = a slightly=20 used red knob control cable is?
 
Dan Reagan
IVP 670 hours and wishing I had my = FADEC=20 back
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