X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 05:07:08 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.64] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3873555 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 03 Oct 2009 21:35:43 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.64; envelope-from=colyncase@earthlink.net DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Z7FY3vAqIBSJXI0zKQdWnEahISSxcYxTD3OJANFh4wG87pYjSMQhlDKAU1M9vFJ+; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [216.57.118.63] (helo=ccaselt3) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MuG0D-000847-8W for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 03 Oct 2009 21:35:09 -0400 X-Original-Message-ID: <094201ca4492$e8a34a90$5c8c020a@nvidia.com> From: "Colyn Case at earthlink" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Subject: Re: [LML] High #2 CHT on a IVP X-Original-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 21:35:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_093F_01CA4471.614EFC40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-ELNK-Trace: 63d5d3452847f8b1d6dd28457998182d7e972de0d01da940b66536577647178995ad08a98445f3f0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.57.118.63 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_093F_01CA4471.614EFC40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dan, There's no reason you can't get a non-fadec engine to have reasonable = cooling. I think you got some other change along with this engine. - I agree with Craig on fuel flow. Do you get the 43.5 wide open? If = not, I would fix that first. Then are you getting the 32 at 31.5? - 375 for the other cylinders is also high which is another reason to = suspect FF is too low. - you really don't want #2 to be first to peak so you want more flow on = that injector. Do you have gami jectors? - You didn't mention the gami spread between #2 and the others. (gph = fuel flow between when #2 peaks and the others). - re: the oil cooler, is the air actually flowing through the fins on #2 = or escaping around the back. you also want flow guides under the back of #2 to force the air to flow through the bottom fins - 400 in cruise is extreme. how many degrees is your hottest egt below = peak when you are full rich? you should be able to get 150-200 dF rich = of peak if you want it. When you lean it, tit will go past 1700 dF = near peak. you have to go to the other side of peak. to get it to come = back down. it would be worth knowing if there is a mixture setting on = the lean side that will get your tit down and your cht's e.g. in the < = 350 range. Colyn ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Craig Berland=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 8:36 PM Subject: [LML] High #2 CHT on a IVP Dan, my engine is doing the same thing. One thing to try is putting = your "last" to peak injector in #2 cylinder. #2 is the hardest cylinder = to cool in my plane as well. This may cause you to fly quite lean if = you cruise "lean of peak. Two, check your fuel rate at 2500 rpm and 31.5 = inHg. I think at full rich it should be approx 32 gph and mine is way = below that. I have 43.5 gph at 2700 rpm and 38.4 inHg. It appears I = may need to pull the fuel pump and check the calibration. I'm trying to = find fuel flow rate data for the TSIO550 right now. Craig Berland IV-P N7VG The current engine I have is brand new with approximately 20 hours on = it. It has a standard mixture control and replaced the previous FADEC = controlled engine. I can not seem to correct my number 2 CHT problem. The previous = engine did not seem to have the problem to this extent. The mod of = building a recess in the oil cooler plenum was done long ago.=20 I cannot climb with 31.5" MP, full rich without #2 hitting 400F at = about 11,000 feet. Climb speed is 165 knots. Today's ground temp was = 70F. I have made a clear path for the air by relocating hoses, spark = plug leads, brackets and anything that might disturb the cooling air. = The only thing left to move is the air conditioning hoses which are = right in the way of the air as it enters the cowling. All the baffling is very tight and everything is the same as was on = the other engine. Has any one had to use a larger injector to keep number 2 cool. = Number 2 EGT is the first to peak. All the other 5 CHT's run within 3 = degrees of each other with number 2 being about 25 degrees higher. = EGT's are running in the 1450 range with #2 being the hottest. Straight and level at 17,000 feet indicating over 200 knots the #2 CHT = will stay just under 400 degrees 31.5" and full rich. When I try to = lean it out the TIT's start above 1650. Has anyone got any suggestions? I will be looking at the injectors tomorrow. I wonder what the trade in value of a slightly used red knob control = cable is? Dan Reagan IVP 670 hours and wishing I had my FADEC back ------=_NextPart_000_093F_01CA4471.614EFC40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dan,
There's no reason you can't get a = non-fadec engine=20 to have reasonable cooling.  I think you got some other change = along with=20 this engine.
- I agree with Craig on fuel = flow.  Do you get=20 the 43.5 wide open?  If not, I would fix that first.  Then are = you=20 getting the 32 at 31.5?
- 375 for the other cylinders is also = high which is=20 another reason to suspect FF is too low.
- you really don't want #2 to be first = to peak so=20 you want more flow on that injector.   Do you have gami=20 jectors?
- You didn't mention the gami spread = between #2 and=20 the others. (gph fuel flow between when #2 peaks and the = others).
- re: the oil cooler, is the air = actually flowing=20 through the fins on #2 or escaping around the back.  you also want = flow=20 guides
under the back of #2 to force the air = to flow=20 through the bottom fins
- 400 in cruise is = extreme.  how many=20 degrees is your hottest egt below peak when you are full rich?  you = should=20 be able to get 150-200 dF rich of peak if you want = it.  =20  When you lean it, tit will go past 1700 dF near peak.   = you have=20 to go to the other side of peak. to get it to come back down.  = it=20 would be worth knowing if there is a mixture setting on the lean side = that will=20 get your tit down and your cht's e.g. in the < 350 = range.
 
Colyn
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Craig=20 Berland
Sent: Saturday, October 03, = 2009 8:36=20 PM
Subject: [LML] High #2 CHT on a = IVP

Dan, my engine is doing the same thing.  One thing = to try is=20 putting your "last" to peak injector in #2 cylinder.  #2 is the = hardest=20 cylinder to cool in my plane as well.  This may cause you to fly = quite=20 lean if you cruise "lean of peak. Two, check your fuel rate at 2500 = rpm and=20 31.5 inHg. I think at full rich it should be approx 32 gph and mine is = way=20 below that.  I have 43.5 gph at 2700 rpm and 38.4 inHg.  It = appears=20 I may need to pull the fuel pump and check the calibration.  I'm = trying=20 to find fuel flow rate data for the TSIO550 right now.
Craig = Berland
IV-P = N7VG
The current engine I have is brand = new with=20 approximately 20 hours on it.  It has a standard mixture control = and=20 replaced the previous FADEC controlled engine.
 
I can not seem to correct my number 2 = CHT=20 problem.  The previous engine did not seem to have the problem to = this=20 extent.  The mod of building a recess in the oil cooler plenum = was done=20 long ago.
 
I cannot climb with 31.5" MP, = full rich=20 without #2 hitting 400F at about 11,000 feet.  Climb speed is 165 = knots.  Today's ground temp was 70F.  I have made a clear = path for=20 the air by relocating hoses, spark plug leads, brackets and anything = that=20 might disturb the cooling air.  The only thing left to move is = the air=20 conditioning hoses which are right in the way of the air as it enters = the=20 cowling.
 
All the baffling is very tight and = everything is=20 the same as was on the other engine.
 
Has any one had to use a larger = injector to keep=20 number 2 cool.  Number 2 EGT is the first to peak.  All the = other 5=20 CHT's run within 3 degrees of each other with number 2 being about 25 = degrees=20 higher.  EGT's are running in the 1450 range with #2 being the=20 hottest.
 
Straight and level at 17,000 feet = indicating over=20 200 knots the #2 CHT will stay just under 400 degrees  31.5" and = full=20 rich.  When I try to lean it out the TIT's start above = 1650.
 
Has anyone got any = suggestions?
 
I will be looking at the injectors=20 tomorrow.
 
I wonder what the trade in value of a = slightly=20 used red knob control cable is?
 
Dan Reagan
IVP 670 hours and wishing I had my = FADEC=20 back
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