X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 19:27:58 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from argon.lunarpages.com ([216.97.227.30] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.13) with ESMTPS id 3578118 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 12 Apr 2009 09:48:34 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.97.227.30; envelope-from=thorn@starflight.aero Received: from [64.91.205.71] (helo=VAlien) by argon.lunarpages.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Lt02I-0003S3-Sj for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 12 Apr 2009 06:47:51 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Valin & Allyson Thorn" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mail List" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: Jeffco Crystallization X-Original-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 08:47:22 -0500 Organization: STARFLIGHT X-Original-Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01C9BB4B.4D45EF60" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acm5+9ZLrIyT3QTWo0q03A+v1mtwngAVlJegAEiciJA= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - argon.lunarpages.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lancaironline.net X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - starflight.aero X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C9BB4B.4D45EF60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey LML gang, Gary Hunter, a friend and epoxy expert you may have seen before briefing at Oshkosh, sent this reply after we forwarded him part of the LML discussion on Jeffco resin crystallization. I think he tried to send it to the LML -- but, it probably didn't make it through since I don't believe he's registered... Here is Gary's message below. BTW, Rhino Linings bought Jeffco. The same products are still available, just new company name. Valin Thorn Legacy Houston, TX USA -----Original Message----- From: gary hunter [mailto:lucyliu22@mac.com] Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Jefco WOE JUST A MINUTE FOLKS.... If we are talking about Jeffco laminating resins ... Listen up. Just because the resin is crystallized, it does not mean it has gone bad. It is perfectly normal for the resin to crystallize. Epoxy resins at ambient temperature is a "super cooled" liquid. What that means is, that below its melting point... ~ 130F...the product remains a liquid. A dust partical, a seed crystal and cool temperatures (like the floor of your garage) will accelerate crystal formation. The most pure resins, crystalize fastest. Using the material in the crystallized state is a no no. If the resins is hazy..that is an indication it has begun to crystallize. HOWEVER, the resin can be "Reconstituted" by heating it above the melting point of the crystals. Once the product becomes clear, free of haze and crystal material, it can be cooled back down the room temperature. The resin is good as new and has not suffered any degradation what so ever. The important part is to Reconstitute the entire contents of the container. The epoxy resin formulations we use can be mixtures of different types of resins to get the best overall properties. Some of these different types of resins, are not super cooled liquids and do not crystallize. So the resin portion that crystallizes is more dense, and settles to the bottom of the container. If you pour off the liquid part sitting on top of the crystallized part, it will not be the same composition of the original mixture. So, if you find a container of resin that is not clear all the way to the bottom. Heat the whole container to melt all the crystals. Stir or shake it little to mix things back up, then you can pour off what you need. The safest way to heat the resin is the seal the container tightly, and place it into a bucket of hot tap water Keep refreshing the hot tap water until the resin is sufficient hot to melt the crystals. If it is a 5 gallon can, I highly recommend you invest in a silicone heating strap from McMaster Carr or some outfit like that. Some of you innovative types may find a cheaper way. It is not necessary, but some builders find it handy to keep their resin in a hot box...like an Igloo cooler with a 40W light bulb in it. This keeps the resin nice and warm and prevents crystal formation. The warm resin wets out the fabric faster, but it will shorten the working time. Storing you resin on the concrete floor will speed up the crystal formation process. Place a couple 2X4's between the container and the floor. Some of you may know me, Jeff Bassman of Jeffco does. He was one of my customers in the past. I am an epoxy resin chemist of 30+ years, currently working for Dow Chemical Company formulating resins systems for various composite applications. If any of you have any questions on epoxies for homebuilders... Feel free to email me. I provide the same type help for the various canard builders too. Gary Hunter Gary Hunter Composites 117 Mesquite St. Lake Jackson, TX 77566 281-433-8478 Lucyliu22@mac.com ___________________________________________________________ On Apr 9, 2009, at 6:52 AM, vonjet@gmail.com wrote: And for those of us in the past 10 years who built planes with Jeffco that was stored cold or on the floor. Well, good luck and hope your plane stays together. Wonderful news to learn of now. Would have been nice to know this yesteryear. ______________________________________________________________ ------Original Message------ From: marv@lancair.net Sender: Lancair Mailing List To: lml@lancaironline.net ReplyTo: Lancair Mailing List Subject: [LML] Jefco Sent: Apr 8, 2009 5:06 PM Posted for "Justin Hawkins"

Hey LML gang,

 

Gary = Hunter, a friend and epoxy expert you may have seen before briefing at Oshkosh, sent this reply after we = forwarded him part of the LML discussion on Jeffco resin crystallization.  I = think he tried to send it to the LML -- but, it probably didn't make it = through since I don't believe he's registered...  Here is Gary’s message = below.

 

BTW, Rhino Linings bought Jeffco.  The = same products are still available, just new company = name.

 

Valin Thorn

Legacy

Houston, TX USA

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: gary hunter [mailto:lucyliu22@mac.com]

Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:46 AM

 

Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Jefco

 

WOE JUST A MINUTE FOLKS....

 

If we are talking about Jeffco laminating resins ... Listen = up.

 

Just because the resin is crystallized, it does not mean it has gone bad. = It

is perfectly normal for the resin to crystallize. Epoxy resins at = ambient

temperature is a "super cooled" liquid.  What that means is, that = below its

melting point... ~ 130F...the product remains a liquid.  A dust partical, = a

seed crystal and cool temperatures (like the floor of your garage) = will

accelerate crystal formation.   The most pure resins, crystalize = fastest.

 

Using the material in the crystallized state is a no no. If the resins = is

hazy..that is an indication it has begun to = crystallize.

 

HOWEVER, the resin can be "Reconstituted" by heating it above the = melting

point of the crystals.  Once the product becomes clear, free of haze = and

crystal material, it can be cooled back down the room temperature.  = The

resin is good as new and has not suffered any degradation what so = ever.

 

The important part is to Reconstitute the entire contents of the = container.

The epoxy resin formulations we use can be mixtures of different types = of

resins to get the best overall properties.  Some of these different types = of

resins, are not super cooled liquids and do not crystallize.  So the = resin

portion that crystallizes is more dense, and settles to the bottom of = the

container. = ; If you pour off the liquid part sitting on top of = the

crystallized part, it will not be the same composition of the = original

mixture.  So, if you find a container of resin that is not clear all the = way

to the bottom.  Heat the whole container to melt all the = crystals.  Stir or

shake it little to mix things back up, then you can pour off what you = need.

 

The safest way to heat the resin is the seal the container tightly, = and

place it into a bucket of hot tap water  Keep refreshing the hot tap = water

until the resin is sufficient hot to melt the = crystals.

 

If it is a 5 gallon can, I highly recommend you invest in a silicone = heating

strap from McMaster Carr or some outfit like that. Some of you = innovative

types may find a cheaper way.

 

It is not necessary, but some builders find it handy to keep their resin = in

a hot box...like an Igloo cooler with a 40W light bulb in it. This keeps = the

resin nice and warm and prevents crystal formation. The warm resin wets = out

the fabric faster, but it will shorten the working = time.

 

Storing you resin on the concrete floor will speed up the crystal = formation

process.  Place a couple 2X4's between the container and the = floor.

 

Some of you may know me, Jeff Bassman of Jeffco does.  He was one of = my

customers in the past.  I am an epoxy resin chemist of 30+ years, = currently

working for Dow Chemical Company formulating resins systems for = various

composite applications.

 

If any of you have any questions on epoxies for homebuilders... Feel free = to

email me.  I provide the same type help for the various canard builders = too.

 

Gary Hunter

Gary Hunter Composites

117 Mesquite = St.

Lake = Jackson, TX 77566

 

281-433-8478

 

Lucyliu22@mac.c= om

 

_______________= ____________________________________________

=

 On Apr 9, 2009, at 6:52 AM, vonjet@gmail.com = wrote:

 

 And for those of us in the past 10 years who built planes = with

 Jeffco that was stored cold or on the floor. Well, good luck = and

 hope your plane stays together.  Wonderful news to learn of now.  = Would have been nice to know this

 yesteryea= r.

 

 _________= _____________________________________________________

 ------Ori= ginal Message------

 From: marv@lancair.net

 Sender: Lancair Mailing = List

 To: lml@lancaironline.net

 ReplyTo: Lancair Mailing = List

 Subject: [LML] Jefco

 Sent: Apr 8, 2009 5:06 PM

 

 Posted for "Justin Hawkins" = <JustinH@lancair.com:

 

  All Lancair customers the build shop did a test on the Jefco = resin,if

  it gets close to freezing even for only a matter of minutes the = resin

  can crystallize and its properties ruined. So if that happens = clean

 the pump replace the resin.

 

  The jefco resin in the 5 gallon drums if left on a concrete floor = or

  steel floor the resin can pull the cold up into the container and = ruin

  the resin. Make sure the resin is stored properly for long = use.

 

  Justin Hawkins

 Lancair Airframe & Technical Support

 Lancair Int. Inc.

 250 SE Timber = AVE

 Redmond, OR 97756

 justinh@l= ancair.com <mailto:justinh@lancair.com

 

  541-923-2244 ext 121

 

 

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