X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 07:52:06 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [66.192.64.50] (HELO server16.crescentpark.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.6) with ESMTP id 3101327 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 14:05:05 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.192.64.50; envelope-from=dtaylor@crescentpark.com X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C90ACA.D823F978" Subject: RE: [LML] Lancair Accidents X-Original-Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 14:04:25 -0400 X-Original-Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [LML] Lancair Accidents thread-index: AckIrrVZpb0tnwBlTeOsKq9cqzmiyAAhtx/g References: From: "Taylor, David" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C90ACA.D823F978 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dennis, =20 Well stated! =20 I would say in summary regarding IMC in general that you should not be flying one of these fast airplanes unless you are INSTRUMENT RATED, and are CURRENT ON INSTRUMENTS. At the very very least you should be able to execute a 180 degree turn in IMC easily and comfortably. Inadvertent IMC is a killer in these machines. =20 On t-storms - as was just stated (cant repeat this enough) THOUGHLY UNDERSTAND ATC'S ROLE IN T-STORM AVOIDENCE. Read this article before you take another breath: http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=3Da5f34e46-8512-437f-8c= f 4-28b8ac61804e& =20 Can anybody not understand how planes go into T-storms after reading this? =20 I would almost say that if you're flying in the ATC system IMC, you should only do so if you have on-board weather. =20 Dave T. Legacy RG =20 From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Dennis Johnson Sent: Wed, August 27, 2008 21:38 To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Lancair Accidents =20 Like everyone else, I've been troubled by the seemingly large number of Lancair accidents since I started building my Legacy in 2004. And like everyone else, I've given it a lot of thought. Despite that, I really can't propose a solution with any confidence that it would help. =20 =20 But this is becoming an emergency. Back in my Air Force days, long before it got this bad, wing commanders would have been fired, airplanes grounded for inspections, and pilots grounded until they received additional training. The current situation is unacceptable. As a result, even though I have no confidence in my ideas on this, here is what I would propose for discussion. Maybe there's the seed of a good idea here; maybe not. =20 1. Flight into Thunderstorms Leading to In-Flight Breakup =20 Since we all know that we shouldn't fly into a thunderstorm, I'd suggest assembling a volunteer panel of instructor pilots to analyze the Lancair thunderstorm accidents. The objective is to understand what specific chain of events lead good pilots to do something that turned out to be so obviously wrong. Understanding the details of how it happens is the first step towards structuring a response to prevent it. =20 These accidents are really baffling to me, which means I don't understand them. And as an instrument pilot, this is something I need to understand. For example, were they flying in IMC and unknowingly flew into an embedded thunderstorm they couldn't see? Did they see the thunderstorm and fly into it anyway, not recognizing it? Or had they allowed themselves to get into a position from which they had no alternative but to fly into a thunderstorm? Did they use onboard systems for thunderstorm avoidance that weren't adequate for that? =20 =20 Telling each other to avoid flying into thunderstorms isn't working. Understanding the specifics of what lead to these accidents might reveal circumstances for which we are unprepared. =20 2. Stall/Spin Close to the Ground =20 While I don't understand the circumstances leading to flying into a thunderstorm, the cause of the stall/spin accident seems clearer. IMO, the stall/spin accident includes a lack of basic airmanship skills. Two fatal accident examples are Legacies that took off with the canopy open and it seems possible the pilots forgot rule #1 of any emergency: "fly the airplane." Other examples include flying too slow in the traffic pattern, probably trying to stay behind slow traffic, and then not recognizing the start of a stall. Or pulling too many Gs in the final turn to avoid overshoot. =20 =20 Maybe HPAT could publish a number of specific lesson plans for Lancair pilots to fly for self-training. HPAT could make the syllabus available for free in the hope that it might be good publicity for HPAT and they might get back their cost through more HPAT training. =20 Each lesson plan would be a short, fifteen minute exercise on a skill that will help avoid stall/spin accidents. They would be intended for a solo pilot to use to maintain his skill level in a critical area that we demonstrate too often that we have allowed to decay. Instead of just flying from here to that next hamburger, spend fifteen minutes enroute going through a specific lesson exercise that focuses on one specific skill and then record it in the pilot's log book. =20 =20 Use peer pressure to instill an atmosphere that continued training is what good pilots do. Have monthly local lunchtime Lancair fly-ins that include going around the table and giving each pilot the chance to tell which lesson plan they've done since the last meeting and how it went. Create the sense that this is what good pilots do and if you're not doing it, there's something wrong with you. =20 =20 It won't work for everyone, but this sort of thing worked in the Air Force, where nearly every pilot wanted to be one of the top pilots in the squadron and would jump through whatever hoops were necessary to achieve it. Even if it only works for half of us, that could result in fewer accidents. =20 =20 For pilots who didn't get HPAT or equivalent training at the start, they would do the lesson plans with a qualified instructor or experienced Lancair pilot in their local area until they acquire the skills. Once the skills are acquired, they would continue the lesson plans solo to maintain the skills, which would continue as long as the person was flying a Lancair. =20 =20 Fly safe, Dennis Legacy, 176 hours ------_=_NextPart_001_01C90ACA.D823F978 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dennis,

 

Well stated!

 

I would say in summary regarding IMC in general that you = should not be flying one of these fast airplanes unless you are INSTRUMENT = RATED, and are CURRENT ON INSTRUMENTS.  At the very very least you should be = able to execute a 180 degree turn in IMC easily and comfortably.  = Inadvertent IMC is a killer in these machines.

 

On t-storms – as was just stated (cant repeat this = enough) THOUGHLY UNDERSTAND ATC’S ROLE IN T-STORM AVOIDENCE.  Read = this article before you take another breath:  http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentB= lockID=3Da5f34e46-8512-437f-8cf4-28b8ac61804e&<= /p>

 

Can anybody not understand how planes go into T-storms = after reading this?

 

I would almost say that if you’re flying in the ATC = system IMC, you should only do so if you have on-board = weather.

 

Dave T.

Legacy RG

 

From:= Lancair = Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Dennis = Johnson
Sent: Wed, August 27, 2008 21:38
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Lancair Accidents

 

Like everyone else, I’ve been troubled by the seemingly large number of Lancair accidents since I started building my = Legacy in 2004.  And like everyone else, I’ve given it a lot of thought.  Despite that, I really can’t propose a solution = with any confidence that it would help. 

 

But this is becoming an emergency.  Back in my = Air Force days, long before it got this bad, wing commanders would have been = fired, airplanes grounded for inspections, and pilots grounded until they = received additional training.  The current situation is unacceptable.  = As a result, even though I have no confidence in my ideas on this, here is = what I would propose for discussion.  Maybe there’s the seed of a = good idea here; maybe not.

 

1.  Flight into Thunderstorms Leading to = In-Flight Breakup

 

Since we all know that we shouldn’t fly into = a thunderstorm, I’d suggest assembling a volunteer panel of = instructor pilots to analyze the Lancair thunderstorm accidents.  The = objective is to understand what specific chain of events lead good pilots to do = something that turned out to be so obviously wrong.  Understanding the details of = how it happens is the first step towards structuring a response to prevent = it.

 

These accidents are really baffling to me, which = means I don’t understand them.  And as an instrument pilot, this is something I need to understand.  For example, were they flying in = IMC and unknowingly flew into an embedded thunderstorm they couldn’t = see?  Did they see the thunderstorm and fly into it anyway, not recognizing = it?  Or had they allowed themselves to get into a position from which they = had no alternative but to fly into a thunderstorm?  Did they use onboard = systems for thunderstorm avoidance that weren’t adequate for that?  =

 

Telling each other to avoid flying into = thunderstorms isn’t working.  Understanding the specifics of what lead to = these accidents might reveal circumstances for which we are = unprepared.

 

2.  Stall/Spin Close to the = Ground

 

While I don’t understand the circumstances = leading to flying into a thunderstorm, the cause of the stall/spin accident seems clearer.  IMO, the stall/spin accident includes a lack of basic = airmanship skills.  Two fatal accident examples are Legacies that took off = with the canopy open and it seems possible the pilots forgot rule #1 of any = emergency:  “fly the airplane.”  Other examples include flying too = slow in the traffic pattern, probably trying to stay behind slow traffic, and = then not recognizing the start of a stall.  Or pulling too many Gs in the = final turn to avoid overshoot. 

 

Maybe HPAT could publish a number of specific = lesson plans for Lancair pilots to fly for self-training.  HPAT could make the = syllabus available for free in the hope that it might be good publicity for HPAT = and they might get back their cost through more HPAT = training.

 

Each lesson plan would be a short, fifteen minute = exercise on a skill that will help avoid stall/spin accidents.  They would = be intended for a solo pilot to use to maintain his skill level in a = critical area that we demonstrate too often that we have allowed to decay.  = Instead of just flying from here to that next hamburger, spend fifteen minutes = enroute going through a specific lesson exercise that focuses on one specific = skill and then record it in the pilot’s log book. 

 

Use peer pressure to instill an atmosphere that = continued training is what good pilots do.  Have monthly local lunchtime = Lancair fly-ins that include going around the table and giving each pilot the = chance to tell which lesson plan they’ve done since the last meeting and how = it went.  Create the sense that this is what good pilots do and if you’re not doing it, there’s something wrong with you.  =

 

It won’t work for everyone, but this sort of = thing worked in the Air Force, where nearly every pilot wanted to be one of = the top pilots in the squadron and would jump through whatever hoops were = necessary to achieve it.  Even if it only works for half of us, that could = result in fewer accidents.    

 

For pilots who didn’t get HPAT or equivalent = training at the start, they would do the lesson plans with a qualified instructor = or experienced Lancair pilot in their local area until they acquire the skills.  Once the skills are acquired, they would continue the = lesson plans solo to maintain the skills, which would continue as long as the = person was flying a Lancair. 

 

Fly safe,

Dennis

Legacy, 176 hours

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