X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 07:49:38 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.1] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.6) with ESMTP id 3100661 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:39:33 -0400 Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r10.8.) id q.d60.30713dc7 (42809) for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:39:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:39:28 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Simulators, Training and "Slow flight" X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1220060368" X-Mailer: Unknown sub 34 X-Spam-Flag:NO -------------------------------1220060368 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmmmm............... Today was interesting, a beautiful day to fly from KARR to KMXO (45 Minutes). I chose to do this at a low altitude because of the beauty - Illinois/Iowa green planted fields, flashing streams, and a clear blue sky (no moisture laden haze). Unfortunately, I ran thru a cluster of those #&#&%^^#%$#& little black bugs that got everyone's attention a few years ago in the AVC race as they descended into the ARR checkpoint. Canards stopped flying at slow speeds, windows became opaque and everybody lost many knots for the remainder of the race. Approaching MXO from the SE I chose to practice the GPS 33 approach w/vertical guidance and a pleasant 10 knot headwind. After the FAF I was descending nicely (13" MP, takeoff flaps, 110 KIAS) when I drifted slightly below the glide slope. Attempting to raise the nose a bit increased the descent rate, dramatically lowered the KIAS and required adding over 2" of MP just to remain level and re-intercept the glide slope. "So what?" one might ask. Well, either the sticky laminar flow was disturbed and changed the L/D, the bug drag was greater than I thought or both. In any event, without adding power and trying to regain the glide slope, the airspeed was fast deteriorating. This is an example of how a low time pilot could get into trouble - no spam can would have seen such a significant change in the flight characteristics in such a short time. Let's see a 320/360 sim pick that up............. Scott Krueger Fly'm if ya got'm - there ain't no substitute. In a message dated 8/29/2008 6:15:50 P.M. Central Daylight Time, tednoel@cfl.rr.com writes: MS Flight Sim and X-Plane, while fun and educational, are not up to the challenge of providing the kind of fidelity needed for type familiarity, let alone upset recovery training. That's curious. The designers of X-Plane are quite proud of their flight dynamics, and my local FBO uses X-Plane to drive an FAA-certified Motus motion sim. That being said, if a group was serious about creating a high-fidelity simulator, I would be please to contribute to the effort with the development of a high fidelity aerodynamic model. The variations between our individual aircraft remain a challenge, but from mostly from a systems level. The aero models could be readily adapted model the range of variations between our aircraft. Tom Low I think all of us would be grateful for your help. Perhaps we could pass the hat to reimburse for the time and effort. If others are willing, I'll put some $$ in. Ted Noel N540TF No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.10/1638 - Release Date: 8/27/2008 7:06 PM **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) -------------------------------1220060368 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hmmmm...............
 
Today was interesting, a beautiful day to fly from KARR to KMXO (45=20 Minutes).  I chose to do this at a low altitude because of the beauty=20 - Illinois/Iowa green planted fields, flashing streams, and a clear blu= e=20 sky (no moisture laden haze). 
 
Unfortunately, I ran thru a cluster of those #&#&%^^#%$#&=20 little black bugs that got everyone's attention a few years ago in the AVC r= ace=20 as they descended into the ARR checkpoint.  Canards stopped flying at s= low=20 speeds, windows became opaque and everybody lost many knots for the remainde= r of=20 the race.
 
Approaching MXO from the SE I chose to practice the GPS 33 approach=20 w/vertical guidance and a pleasant 10 knot headwind. After the FAF I was=20 descending nicely (13" MP, takeoff flaps, 110 KIAS) when I drifted slig= htly=20 below the glide slope.  Attempting to raise the nose a bit increased th= e=20 descent rate, dramatically lowered the KIAS and required adding ov= er=20 2" of MP just to remain level and re-intercept the glide slope.  "So wh= at?"=20 one might ask.  Well, either the sticky laminar flow was disturbed= and=20 changed the L/D, the bug drag was greater than I thought or both.  In a= ny=20 event, without adding power and trying to regain the glide slope, the airspe= ed=20 was fast deteriorating.  This is an example of how a low time pilot cou= ld=20 get into trouble - no spam can would have seen such a significant chang= e in=20 the flight characteristics in such a short time.  Let's see a 320/360 s= im=20 pick that up.............
 
Scott Krueger
Fly'm if ya got'm - there ain't no substitute.
In a message dated 8/29/2008 6:15:50 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 tednoel@cfl.rr.com writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>
 
 MS Flight Sim and X-= Plane,=20 while fun and educational, are not up to the challenge of providing the=20= kind=20 of fidelity needed for type familiarity, let alone upset recovery=20 training. 
 
 
That's curious. The design= ers of=20 X-Plane are quite proud of their flight dynamics, and my local FBO uses=20 X-Plane to drive an FAA-certified Motus motion sim.
 
 
 
That being said, if a grou= p was=20 serious about creating a high-fidelity simulator, I would be please to=20 contribute to the effort with the development of a high fidelity aerodyn= amic=20 model.   The variations between our individual aircraft remain= a=20 challenge, but from mostly from a systems level.  The aero models c= ould=20 be readily adapted model the range of variations between our aircraft.=20  

 

Tom=20 Low

 

I think all of us wou= ld be=20 grateful for your help. Perhaps we could pass the hat to reimburse for t= he=20 time and effort. If others are willing, I'll put some $$=20 in.

&= nbsp;

Ted=20 Noel

N540TF

 

 

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20
Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.10/1638 - Release Date: 8/27/2008 7=
:06 PM



It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find you= r travel deal here.
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