X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:27:27 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.36] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.6) with ESMTP id 3066312 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:18:09 -0400 Received: from VTAILJEFF@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r10.8.) id q.cd4.3497f938 (37545) for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2008 16:17:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-da02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-da02.mx.aol.com [205.188.249.145]) by cia-mb02.mx.aol.com (v121_r2.11) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB026-92a9489b58642dd; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:17:40 -0400 Received: from FWM-M20 (fwm-m20.webmail.aol.com [64.12.168.84]) by smtprly-da02.mx.aol.com (v121_r2.12) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDA022-5bb3489b585cda; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:17:32 -0400 References: X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Clearing up some information about the Legacy accident. X-Original-Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:17:32 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 75.58.186.34 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: vtailjeff@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CAC6E1C249171E_6E4_401E_FWM-M20.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 38159-STANDARD Received: from 75.58.186.34 by FWM-M20.sysops.aol.com (64.12.168.84) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:17:32 -0400 X-Original-Message-Id: <8CAC6E1C22C7AF2-6E4-1FD9@FWM-M20.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO ----------MB_8CAC6E1C249171E_6E4_401E_FWM-M20.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Of 148 Lancair accidents only 12 have been the stall/ spin variety. I do not know where everyone is coming up with the 1/3 number. Jeff Edwards -----Original Message----- From: terrence o'neill To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 3:09 pm Subject: [LML] Re: Clearing up some information about the Legacy accident. "Angle, angle, push'? In stress, the mind disconnects 'distractions' in the ear. It FOCUSES ... i.e. the EYES get priority. ? At?'stress ?time' an even better system is one that employs eye-hand info, such as an AOA VANE that is always in the pilot's field of vision, continually showing angle degrees, not little lights, or (distracting) sounds. Then he can SEE the AIR, SEE and FEEL?the angle of his wing to the relative wind, as?he controls the wing's AOA precisely with his hand on the stick, without having to think about it.? Habit. ? The numbers quoted in the referenced new AOA brochure are the same general range I found after reviewing some 800 fatal accidents, and published 10 years ago in Kitplanes (12/98) ... roughly a?THIRD of all?FATAL accidents in Genav are from unintentional stalls, and almost?HALF of all Experimentals' . So, were us supremely confident, macho pilots alarmed by such red flags?? Say what? Has anything changed?in the posturing FAA's wordy, unchanged training-training-training SAFETY programs, and the continued primary antique emphasis on 'stall speed' for 10 years? NAH!? We know safety. We know our plane! We can feel it's approach to stall. And we don't need no stinkin' AOAs that WORK, and are USED. ? As?judge said after sentencing the defendant to death, "And I hope this teaches you a lesson!". ? Terrence L235/320 N211AL ? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Galbraith To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 08:31 PM Subject: [LML] Re: Clearing up some information about the Legacy accident. Good catch.?? You want the "angle angle, push", or whatever version of AOA you have that tells you you are approaching critical angle of attack.?? Ron ?Ron, ? ? ? ?Why would you want to "pull up" and increase the angle of attack when you ?are already close to the stalling AOA? ? ? ? ?Lynn Farnsworth ? ?"""" ----------MB_8CAC6E1C249171E_6E4_401E_FWM-M20.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Of 148 Lancair accidents only 12 have been the stall/ spin variety. I do not know where everyone is coming up with the 1/3 number.

Jeff Edwards



-----Original Message-----
From: terrence o'neill <troneill@charter.net>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 3:09 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: Clearing up some information about the Legacy accident.

"Angle, angle, push'?
In stress, the mind disconnects 'distractions' in the ear. It FOCUSES ... i.e. the EYES get priority.
 
At 'stress  time' an even better system is one that employs eye-hand info, such as an AOA VANE that is always in the pilot's field of vision, continually showing angle degrees, not little lights, or (distracting) sounds.
Then he can SEE the AIR,
SEE and FEEL the angle of his wing to the relative wind,
as he controls the wing's AOA precisely with his hand on the stick,
without having to think about it. 
Habit.
 
The numbers quoted in the referenced new AOA brochure are the same general range I found after reviewing some 800 fatal accidents, and published 10 years ago in Kitplanes (12/98) ...
roughly a THIRD of all FATAL accidents in Genav are from unintentional stalls, and almost HALF of all Experimentals'
.
So, were us supremely confident, macho pilots alarmed by such red flags?  Say what?
Has anything changed in the posturing FAA's wordy, unchanged training-training-training SAFETY programs, and the continued primary antique emphasis on 'stall speed' for 10 years?
NAH! 
We know safety.
We know our plane!
We can feel it's approach to stall.
And we don't need no stinkin' AOAs that WORK, and are USED.
 
As judge said after sentencing the defendant to death, "And I hope this teaches you a lesson!".
 
Terrence
L235/320 N211AL
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 08:31 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: Clearing up some information about the Legacy accident.


Good catch.   You want the "angle angle, push", or whatever version of AOA you have that tells you you are approaching critical angle of attack.  

Ron



 Ron,
 
 
 
 Why would you want to "pull up" and increase the angle of attack when you
 are already close to the stalling AOA?
 
 
 
 Lynn Farnsworth
 
 """"

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