X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:31:44 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from smtp117.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ([69.147.64.90] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.6) with SMTP id 3064937 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 20:34:39 -0400 Received: (qmail 30553 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2008 00:34:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO paulrzm5oth3zt) (pbricker@att.net@76.206.248.200 with login) by smtp117.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Aug 2008 00:34:36 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Fzc.nJ8VM1lWCiE6XI6lVOF3LvqkmQih4uSrzKKGFwwKPRfAqEy6rDKKcKmpuzrpaPQVxXoWocNo_0aMgFICTdS3_u8LPFIN3Y1Nh0gFyu74YyWjHRp66WYYUQyXP5M- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Paul Bricker" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Finishing Costs X-Original-Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 17:34:38 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: <003501c8f825$60425f20$6601a8c0@paulrzm5oth3zt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01C8F7EA.B3E38720" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: Acj3+0GhvpXGtY2WQOyvgO1P1gBHoQAKVjMg In-Reply-To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C8F7EA.B3E38720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Guys, One thing I didn't mention when I said $20K (for an ES) was reasonable was something this owner of the paint shop told me after I was there. Rob was right on saying you can save money by doing body work yourself but unless your experienced you should get some guidance from the pros. I had many manhours in mine but most had to be removed by the guys in the shop. The owner offer to have his guys give me some quick training and let me take it away in order to save some money. By that point I was foolishly feeling richer than motivated and had him press on with the job. Paul Bricker N63PB _____ From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of rwolf99@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:33 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Finishing Costs Many of us don't have $20K to drop on a paint job. And yes, I know that there's a lot more to it than just paint -- I was stating it that way to make a point. Mike Easley has the right idea for us Lancair builders with limited funds. Do the bulk of it yourself , but just up until the end. Filling pinholes is not hard and does not take too long. Finding and filling the low spots does not take that long, either. But that last pass or two -- it's not a matter of time, it's a matter of skill. Some of us have it, but most of us don't. To get a result that you're happy with may very well take the 1000 hours that you've been posting. It probably takes that long to develop the skill. If your goal is to teach yourself to be a professional painter, then by all means do the whole thing yourself. If your objective is to learn the basics and save a ton of money for a relatively small investment in time, do the initial work yourself and let the professional do that last pass or two. Put on the micro (or SuperFil) and leave it a little high when you deliver it to him. The plan will be for him to make one final sanding pass and then spray. Of course, it won't actually work that way, but that's the goal. If this is the approach you use, I STRONGLY recommend that your painter see your airplane one or twice during this process. Even if you can only bring him a wing, that's okay. He'll see what you've done, and after he realizes that you don't know what you're doing he'll show you how to fondle the surface to identify problem areas. Make sure you ask him to show you how to manipulate the sanding tools to get the results he wants to see. And yes, you'll go back into the garage and do as much work again as you already had before you finally drop off the plane. At least, that's how it worked for me. I did the bottom of my airplane this way. The bottom is in primer and the top is (as yet) untouched. The body work on the bottom appears superb to my untrained eye and hands. He intends to do a single additional sanding pass (I think 180 grit, or maybe 320) before he sprays the paint on what he's already primed. My airplane is in the garage. It's easy to walk out there, do an hour or so of sanding, and then put on some more filler. Come back the next day after the filler cures and repeat. I spent about 100 hours on it and he spent about 40. Of course, the 360 is a little airplane. - Rob Wolf _____ It's time to go back to school! Get the latest trends and gadgets that make the grade on AOL Shopping. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C8F7EA.B3E38720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Guys,

 

One thing I didn’t mention = when I said $20K (for an ES) was reasonable was something this owner of the = paint shop told me after I was there.  Rob was right on saying you can save = money by doing body work yourself but unless your experienced you should get some guidance from the pros. I had many manhours in mine but most had to be = removed by the guys in the shop. The owner offer to have his guys give me some = quick training and let me take it away in order to save some money. By that = point I was foolishly feeling richer than motivated and had him press on with the = job.

 

Paul = Bricker

N63PB

 

From: = Lancair Mailing List = [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of rwolf99@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August = 06, 2008 12:33 PM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: = Finishing Costs

 

Many of us don't have $20K to drop on a paint job.  And = yes, I know that there's a lot more to it than just paint -- I was stating it = that way to make a point.

Mike Easley has the right idea for us Lancair builders with limited funds.  Do the bulk of it yourself , but just up until the = end.  Filling pinholes is not hard and does not take too long.  Finding = and filling the low spots does not take that long, either.  But that = last pass or two -- it's not a matter of time, it's a matter of skill.  Some = of us have it, but most of us don't.  To get a result that you're happy = with may very well take the 1000 hours that you've been posting.  It = probably takes that long to develop the skill.

If your goal is to teach yourself to be a professional painter, then by = all means do the whole thing yourself.  If your objective is to learn = the basics and save a ton of money for a relatively small investment in = time, do the initial work yourself and let the professional do that last pass or two.  Put on the micro (or SuperFil) and leave it a little high = when you deliver it to him.  The plan will be for him to make one final = sanding pass and then spray.  Of course, it won't actually work that way, = but that's the goal.

If this is the approach you use, I STRONGLY recommend that your painter = see your airplane one or twice during this process.  Even if you can = only bring him a wing, that's okay.  He'll see what you've done, and = after he realizes that you don't know what you're doing he'll show you how to = fondle the surface to identify problem areas.  Make sure you ask him to show = you how to manipulate the sanding tools to get the results he wants to = see.  And yes, you'll go back into the garage and do as much work again as you = already had before you finally drop off the plane.  At least, that's how it = worked for me.

I did the bottom of my airplane this way.  The bottom is in primer = and the top is (as yet) untouched.  The body work on the bottom appears = superb to my untrained eye and hands.  He intends to do a single additional = sanding pass (I think 180 grit, or maybe 320) before he sprays the paint on what = he's already primed.

My airplane is in the garage.  It's easy to walk out there, do an = hour or so of sanding, and then put on some more filler.  Come back = the next day after the filler cures and repeat.  I spent about 100 hours on = it and he spent about 40.  Of course, the 360 is a little airplane.

- Rob Wolf

It's time to go back to school! Get the latest trends and gadgets that make = the grade on AOL Shopping.

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