X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:14:50 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.36] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.5) with ESMTP id 3023824 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:40:21 -0400 Received: from VTAILJEFF@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id q.ceb.3af2b277 (41811) for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:40:15 -0400 (EDT) From: VTAILJEFF@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:40:15 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Accidents X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215952815" X-Mailer: Unknown sub 34 X-Spam-Flag:NO -------------------------------1215952815 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Charlie has great advice here. We could probably cut the IVP accident rate=20 by 40% if we just stayed out of thunderstorms and towering Cu. You are NOT=20 going to fly over these monsters. Not in a IVP-not ever. So your options ar= e to=20 use your nexrad to plot an end around the lines that develop in the summer=20= or=20 stay below the bases and avoid the rain shafts.=20 =20 You should not be using NEXRAD to fly between cells that you cannot visuall= y=20 see. You have to be VFR to stay safe when operating close to these things.=20 Some of them are moving at over 60 knots. So if you have a time lag of up t= o=20 10 minutes the cell may be ten miles away from where it is depicted or more= .=20 As Charlie said, the NEXRAD tells you the direction of movement, which is v= ery=20 important in your decision making. Stay upwind of these things or plan a =20 very wide excursion if you have to go on the downwind side. =20 Descisions to go between cells in a line should not be taken lightly. Can=20 you see all the way through the break to blue sky on the other side? How wi= de=20 is the break between cells? Is the break opening or closing? How can you te= ll?=20 What are the tops of the cu in the break? What is on the other side? Anothe= r=20 cell? Is there any lightning close? What is you escape route if you poke=20 your nose in it and it closes up?=20 =20 I fly with WSI on my Chelton and XM on my Garmin 396 (belt and suspenders).=20= =20 There are differences between the two nexrad images that are important. One=20= =20 may be painting orange while the other is green. I choose the most conservat= ive=20 route of the tow shown. =20 If you are planning on a trip outside the continental U.S. say Canada or =20 Alaska or the Bahamas-- the coverage does not extend very far outside of CON= US. =20 Two Lancairs found that out the hard way--both fatal, one this year. =20 I was on the other side of the storm that Tom Brady flew into. I landed in =20 St. Louis twenty minutes before he went down. Ten to fifteen minutes after I= =20 landed the storm passed and the tornado sirens went off. Tom Brady flew into= =20 that. I talked to the FSDO here about his accident -- his wreckage was=20 scattered over four miles. He was flying in the low FL 20's when he penetra= ted the=20 storm.=20 =20 Living in St. Louis has made every trip this year one with thunderstorms.=20= I=20 have not topped one yet.=20 =20 Be careful out there! =20 Jeff =20 =20 In a message dated 7/12/2008 7:47:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time, =20 charliekohler@yahoo.com writes: =20 Hi Colyn, =20 IMHO the safest approach to summertime towering cumulus is to stay VMC. On =20 top- is best if the air is not electrically charged -- if not able-- go down= =20 to 3000 feet-- below the bases (VMC) (check terrain clearance)-- and always=20= be =20 vigilant for lightning and hail on the downwind side-- yes--stay out of the green (if only to protect your paint). =20 And in regards to diversions-- go early when the heading corrections are 10=20= =20 to 20=B0. Not when you're in a box canyon and you need a 90=B0 to a 180=B0 c= ourse =20 change. You'll notice that large holes and openings from 100 miles out will=20= =20 close up by the time you get there. And it would've been better to take that= =20 20=B0 heading cut to go around the up wind side before you got there. Saves=20= time =20 too.=20 And Thanks-- Charlie K. See me on the Web at _www.Lancair-IV.com_ (http://www.lancair-iv.com/)=20 ----- Original Message ---- From: Colyn Case at earthlink To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 5:11:54 PM Subject: [LML] Re: Accidents Charlie, thanks for this. =20 Are you proposing no IMC up high period or just staying 2X recommended=20 distance from what you see on xm? (maybe even staying out of all green if=20= you are=20 high and imc). =20 Colyn =20 **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music= =20 scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! =20 (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=3Daolmus00050000000112) -------------------------------1215952815 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Charlie has great advice here. We could probably cut the IVP=20 accident rate by 40% if we just stayed out of thunderstorms and towering Cu.= You=20 are NOT going to fly over these monsters. Not in a IVP-not ever. So your opt= ions=20 are to use your nexrad to plot an end around the lines that develop in the=20 summer or stay below the bases and avoid the rain shafts.
 
You should not be using NEXRAD to fly between cells that you cannot=20 visually see. You have to be VFR to stay safe when operating close to these=20 things. Some of them are moving at over 60 knots. So if you have a time lag=20= of=20 up to 10 minutes the cell may be ten miles away from where it is depicted or= =20 more. As Charlie said, the NEXRAD tells you the direction of movement, which= is=20 very important in your decision making. Stay upwind of these things or plan=20= a=20 very wide excursion if you have to go on the downwind side.
 
Descisions to go between cells in a line should not be taken light= ly.=20 Can you see all the way through the break to blue sky on the other side? How= =20 wide is the break between cells? Is the break opening or closing? How can yo= u=20 tell? What are the tops of the cu in the break? What is on the oth= er=20 side? Another cell? Is there any lightning close? What is you escape route i= f=20 you poke your nose in it and it closes up?
 
I fly with WSI on my Chelton and XM on my Garmin 396 (belt and suspende= rs).=20 There are differences between the two nexrad images that are important.= One=20 may be painting orange while the other is green. I choose the most conservat= ive=20 route of the tow shown.
 
If you are planning on a trip outside the continental U.S. say Canada o= r=20 Alaska or the Bahamas-- the coverage does not extend very far outside of CON= US.=20 Two Lancairs found that out the hard way--both fatal, one this year.
 
I was on the other side of the storm that Tom Brady flew into. I landed= in=20 St. Louis twenty minutes before he went down. Ten to fifteen minutes after I= =20 landed the storm passed and the tornado sirens went off. Tom Brady flew into= =20 that. I talked to the FSDO here about his accident -- his wreckage was scatt= ered=20 over four miles. He was flying in the low FL 20's when he penetrated the sto= rm.=20
 
Living in St. Louis  has made every trip this year one with=20 thunderstorms. I have not topped one yet.
 
Be careful out there!
 
Jeff
 
In a message dated 7/12/2008 7:47:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 charliekohler@yahoo.com writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>
 
Hi Colyn,

IMHO the safest approach to summertime towering cumulus is to stay VMC.= On=20 top- is best if the air is not electrically charged -- if not able-- go do= wn=20 to 3000 feet-- below the bases (VMC) (check terrain clearance)-- and alway= s be=20 vigilant for lightning and hail on the downwind side--
yes--stay out of= the=20 green (if only to protect your paint).

And in regards to diversions-- go early when the heading corrections ar= e 10=20 to 20=B0. Not when you're in a box canyon and you need a 90=B0 to a 180= =B0 course=20 change. You'll notice that large holes and openings from 100 miles out wil= l=20 close up by the time you get there. And it would've been better to take th= at=20 20=B0 heading cut to go around the up wind side before you got there. Save= s time=20 too.

 

And  Thanks--

Charlie K.
See me=20 on the Web at  www.Lancair-IV.com

<= BR> -----=20 Original Message ----
From: Colyn Case at earthlink=20 <colyncase@earthlink.net>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent:=20 Saturday, July 12, 2008 5:11:54 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: Accidents

Charlie, thanks for this.
 
Are you proposing no IMC up high period o= r just=20 staying 2X recommended distance from what you see on xm?  (maybe even= =20 staying out of all green if you are high and imc).
 
Colyn
 


Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows=20= and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!<= /DIV> -------------------------------1215952815--