X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:08:44 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.67] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2728155 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:48:42 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.67; envelope-from=colyncase@earthlink.net DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=WBPXt9Q2n4sRYslbpPpcjOqgiK4Cmn/SMu5DtG0PkCGh6icYXeVenStMaFLBOobG; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [216.57.118.94] (helo=ccaselt2) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPKm9-0003uk-OA for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:48:02 -0500 X-Original-Message-ID: <09f201c86e60$3226f9b0$0202a8c0@nvidia.com> From: "Colyn Case on earthlink" X-Original-To: Subject: Columbia owners on tks vs. thermawing X-Original-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:48:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_09EF_01C86E36.48D299F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-ELNK-Trace: 63d5d3452847f8b1d6dd28457998182d7e972de0d01da94047b459b3e6aec494fa33e624d327b533350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.57.118.94 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_09EF_01C86E36.48D299F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I stumbled onto this thread at Club Columbia: http://www.lancairpilots.org/showthread.php?t=3D3512 Apparently Cessna is still making up their mind about thermawing and is = only supporting TKS for now. In the thread are a few reports on both systems. I thought this one = was interesting as it indicates some of what I hope are only teething issues for thermawing. Colyn ---------------------------------------------------------- Re: TKS decision guidance=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- I had mixed results with Evade in a round trip from Portland to Southern = California last week. There was weather on the flight down, but it = looked like 19,000 would top it all. I expected a bit of light ice on = the climbout but there was none. On top at 19,000 I began to get into a = few tiny buildups which were a little bumpy. 20,000 solved that problem. = Darkness fell at the halfway point, over the middle of the Sierra Nevada = just west of Lake Tahoe. (METAR at South Lake Tahoe way below: 1/4 mile, = snow, freezing fog - is there anyone that honestly can say they would = not want a parachute at that moment?). Tops got higher so I went through = the hassle of putting the mask on and got on up to 230. Just barely on = top and very cold at -30C. Airliners descending into Sacramento were = getting ice between 20,000 and 14,000. Once again the status tops rose to my altitude. At least I don't have to = worry about ice: it's too cold ... Right? Wrong! In my flashlight I = clearly see the white frost on the leading edges and the IAS drops a = bit. I push the Evade button .... the red FAIL light come on! &*%#! So I = climb all the way to 250. Fortunately that is on top the rest of the = way. After I leveled off I rebooted the Evade controller by resetting the 3 = amp breaker. This time the system booted up and stayed on without = problems. It cleared the frost too. I don't know why it failed the first = time. The next incident happened on the return trip. I cruised relatively low = (10,000) to minimize the strong headwinds. Over Bakersfield I was in and = out of small CU's. They weren't very bumpy, but they had some ice. A = couple thousand foot climb would have topped the little buildups and it = was clear above. Feeling in no danger I decided to stay where I was, = turn on Evade, and see how it did. After 10 minutes of this, the right = wing was clear, the left wing was clear except for an area about 12 = inches long between the cuff and the stall warning tab. The left = horizontal still had ice on it, top and bottom, as best I could see. The = right horizontal seemed to have ice on the bottom but not the top = (again, it's a little hard to see the tail - I'm going to carry binocs = now for that purpose). IAS had dropped from 150 to 125 or so, and the = airplane was a little mushy. In the past I have found that you only lose = a few knots from modest ice on the unprotected surfaces. It would seem = that some of the heaters (or portions of the heaters) were not heating = up enough. Yet the cockpit lights indicated that the system was working = properly. The ice that did accumulate was rough, jagged, uneven rime. The third incident occurred the next day with light icing on the descent = into the Portland area from 16,000 feet. The system worked perfectly and = I was quickly clear of the icy region. I have not had an opportunity to discuss these issues with Kelly. __________________ Art Schwalge Columbia 400 N4468F ------=_NextPart_000_09EF_01C86E36.48D299F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I stumbled onto this thread at Club = Columbia:
 
http://www.= lancairpilots.org/showthread.php?t=3D3512
 
Apparently Cessna is still making up their mind = about=20 thermawing and is only supporting TKS for now.
In the thread are a few reports on both=20 systems.   I thought this one was interesting as it indicates=20 some
of what I hope are only teething issues for=20 thermawing.
 
Colyn
 
-------------------------------------------------------= ---
 
 
Re: TKS decision guidance
I had mixed results with Evade in a round = trip from=20 Portland to Southern California last week. There was weather on the = flight down,=20 but it looked like 19,000 would top it all. I expected a bit of light = ice on the=20 climbout but there was none. On top at 19,000 I began to get into a few = tiny=20 buildups which were a little bumpy. 20,000 solved that problem. Darkness = fell at=20 the halfway point, over the middle of the Sierra Nevada just west of = Lake Tahoe.=20 (METAR at South Lake Tahoe way below: 1/4 mile, snow, freezing fog - is = there=20 anyone that honestly can say they would not want a parachute at that = moment?).=20 Tops got higher so I went through the hassle of putting the mask on and = got on=20 up to 230. Just barely on top and very cold at -30C. Airliners = descending into=20 Sacramento were getting ice between 20,000 and 14,000.

Once again = the=20 status tops rose to my altitude. At least I don't have to worry about = ice: it's=20 too cold ... Right? Wrong! In my flashlight I clearly see the white = frost on the=20 leading edges and the IAS drops a bit. I push the Evade button .... the = red FAIL=20 light come on! &*%#! So I climb all the way to 250. Fortunately that = is on=20 top the rest of the way.

After I leveled off I rebooted the Evade = controller by resetting the 3 amp breaker. This time the system booted = up and=20 stayed on without problems. It cleared the frost too. I don't know why = it failed=20 the first time.

The next incident happened on the return trip. I = cruised=20 relatively low (10,000) to minimize the strong headwinds. Over = Bakersfield I was=20 in and out of small CU's. They weren't very bumpy, but they had some = ice. A=20 couple thousand foot climb would have topped the little buildups and it = was=20 clear above. Feeling in no danger I decided to stay where I was, turn on = Evade,=20 and see how it did. After 10 minutes of this, the right wing was clear, = the left=20 wing was clear except for an area about 12 inches long between the cuff = and the=20 stall warning tab. The left horizontal still had ice on it, top and = bottom, as=20 best I could see. The right horizontal seemed to have ice on the bottom = but not=20 the top (again, it's a little hard to see the tail - I'm going to carry = binocs=20 now for that purpose). IAS had dropped from 150 to 125 or so, and the = airplane=20 was a little mushy. In the past I have found that you only lose a few = knots from=20 modest ice on the unprotected surfaces. It would seem that some of the = heaters=20 (or portions of the heaters) were not heating up enough. Yet the cockpit = lights=20 indicated that the system was working properly. The ice that did = accumulate was=20 rough, jagged, uneven rime.

The third incident occurred the next = day with=20 light icing on the descent into the Portland area from 16,000 feet. The = system=20 worked perfectly and I was quickly clear of the icy region.

I = have not=20 had an opportunity to discuss these issues with Kelly.
__________________
Art=20 Schwalge
Columbia=20 400
N4468F=20
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