X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:18:12 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mtao05.charter.net ([209.225.8.179] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2726768 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:41:03 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.225.8.179; envelope-from=LHenney@charter.net Received: from aarprv04.charter.net ([10.20.200.74]) by mtao05.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.00 201-2186-121-20061213) with ESMTP id <20080212194023.IRZT17423.mtao05.charter.net@aarprv04.charter.net> for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:40:23 -0500 Received: from LHenneyLaptop ([68.118.120.245]) by aarprv04.charter.net with ESMTP id <20080212194021.QNZW17353.aarprv04.charter.net@LHenneyLaptop> for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:40:21 -0500 From: "LHenney" X-Original-To: "Lancair List" Subject: 360 gear dump valve idea Transcon Record... X-Original-Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:40:31 -0600 X-Original-Message-ID: <00ba01c86daf$213f2570$650fa8c0@LHenneyLaptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00BB_01C86D7C.D6A94950" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AchtrgOgidfcgs7yTjmx7fM08DMBLAAANCBw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Chzlrs: 0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00BB_01C86D7C.D6A94950 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Scott, =20 I agree with all that. We=92re fighting a nuisance with a sledgehammer. =20 The NAA record is weight based only and our class C1b is up to 2205 lbs. Thus, the Questair Venture with a turbocharged Cont 550 of course is = light enough to kick ours. =20 Drazzle. =20 Larry =20 _____ =20 From: Sky2high@aol.com [mailto:Sky2high@aol.com]=20 Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 5:09 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] /360 gear dump valve idea Transcon Record... =20 Larry, =20 I don't believe there has been a similar problem with getting the gear = down. There is enough energy in the system to get things moving - consider the effects of gravity on the mains and the 100# gas spring on the nose = gear. The problem is limited to raising the gear. One easy way to solve the problem is to get the pump running and break the pressure anomaly. Thus = an "up" pressure switch over ride (i.e. a hidden momentary push-button = switch accessible to the pilot) is a light weight and simple protection against = an occurrence becoming a vexation.=20 =20 You sure the egg had a little ole 360 in it? Or is the yolk on you?=20 Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96 Aurora, IL (KARR) Pilot not TSO'd, Certificated score only > 70%. =20 =20 In a message dated 2/10/2008 10:00:38 P.M. Central Standard Time, LHenney@charter.net writes: Bryan, Gary, Randy S=92s., =20 Bryan, yes the ball and spring get chunked. Gary, I=92m incompetent at computer sketching but it is a one liner. = Perhaps S.Kruger could help me. My thought is that a 3 way dump valve will = directly replace the existing dump valve. As far as the sketch is concerned, I = would draw a line from the new dump valve to the center port of my pump. A = piece of plane ole =BC=94 tubing slips in the pump and down to near the = reservoir bottom. A possible option for the dump valve is : 3-Way Gear Dump Valve Long Beach Valve and Fitting 3940 Gilman St Long Beach, CA 90815 (562) 494-6694 (562) 494-0493 fax Part Number: B-42XHS4-BKB =20 HOWEVER: this whole 3 way dump valve may just be a feel good solution. = In the final analysis it may be just fine as far as safety of gear = extension (electric or freefall) is concerned. So far there have been no = indications that anyone=92s gear has hesitated to come down after cracking the dump = valve (in it=92s existing design). As I mentioned one other time, the loss of = the physical handle combined with the unique high to low pressure bleeding = could pose a problem. =20 AND: Randy Stuarts external T shuttle sounds to be an elegant and = simple correction for the quirk which would preclude the need for the 3 way = valve. Have you got a vendor and part that you are considering? We=92d love = the data. Do the 2 ends of the T go High and low pressure connections and = the third leg directly to the pump return port? =20 Disclaimer: The above discussion is from a list of things I=92m trying = to get accomplished on my speeder. I have not done any of the aforementioned projects to my plane (weight penalty, budget, time, honey do=92s, etc). = I haven=92t even got the darn gages installed which have been sitting in = my hangar for a week. I do appreciate the feedback from those with more = time on there hands. =20 Did anybody notice that Bruce Hammers transcontinental speed record of = Mar 06 got walloped by a blistering 30 mph. New record 288 mph by a = Questair Venture! Say it isn=92t so=85=85.. =20 Larry Very Prompt Lancair 360LH _____ =20 From: Bryan Wullner [mailto:vonjet@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 2:14 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] FW: [LML] 235/320/360 gear dump valve idea =20 Randy, When I removed the plug in my pump a spring and a steel ball came out. = Do I remove these and then Install the 1/4" return line to this port? Bryan On Feb 7, 2008 10:34 AM, LHenney wrote: Randy, =20 Hold off on the machine work. Your pump is designed with a third port (between the two now in use). It is threaded and ready for your return line. A =BC " tubing can be installed as a down tube in the tank (mine = came with the tube installed). =20 Also, Randy Stuarts idea of a T shuttle sounds very, very interesting. = I don't completely know what a T shuttle valve is however. Thus, I'm grappling with check valve analogies and getting a lot of "how would = that work?" thoughts. Does this mean pressure on up circuit triggers = opening of shuttle from down circuit, therefore T goes to third port??? I'm = tempted to like this idea. Additionally, could second T also tie in to third port = and allow 3 way dump common path to reservoir. Please tell us more R. = Stuart=85.. =20 Larry Henney N360LH Much less chirping lately after changing out pump O rings; Lancair also = got more pressure gauges in stock and shipped mine. =20 _____ =20 From: Sky2high@aol.com [mailto:Sky2high@aol.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:49 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] 235/320/360 gear dump valve idea =20 Randy, =20 Remember that the reservoir needs a small vent hole so that air pressure = or vacuum does not build up in the reservoir itself. Usually the vent is = in the filler cap or its threads. =20 Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96 Aurora, IL (KARR) Pilot not TSO'd, Certificated score only > 70%. =20 =20 In a message dated 2/6/2008 11:29:13 A.M. Central Standard Time, randylsnarr@yahoo.com writes: With the way the hydraulic system is currently designed, you equalize = the pressure on the high and low sides when it is opened. For those of us = who have pressure gauges, you can see that you can have significant pressure = on the system even when the valve is opened. I want to be able to not only equalize the pressure between the high and low sides of the hydraulic = system with the dump valve but also release the pressure on both sides. Today I purchased a 3 way valve to do just that. The idea is to open = the valve connecting the high and low sides and also releasing the = pressure back to the tank. I will most likely run a low pressure line like nylaflow back to the = pump and make spin up a custom fitting on the lathe out of aluminum to go = into the dipstick hole and terminate the return line there. I will make a = needle dipstick checker that will screw into the same fitting for checking = fluid level. If you wanted to do it the easy way, you could always just dump the low pressure line out the belly of the airplane onto the ground. It would = take very little fluid to drop the pressure and there would be no need to = deal with connecting the low pressure fluid line to the tank. I hate pulling the airplane out of a cool hanger into the warm sunshine = and watching the gear pressures rise to 6-700 lbs before the master switch = is turned on! We all know what happens when they hit 900. Yep no gear retraction as the upper limit has been tripped by the system pressure.=20 My new valve would fix that!!! I hope... =20 =20 _____ =20 Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. =20 _____ =20 Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. ------=_NextPart_000_00BB_01C86D7C.D6A94950 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Scott,

 

I agree with all that.=A0 = We’re fighting a nuisance with a sledgehammer.

 

The NAA record is weight based only = and our class C1b is up to 2205 lbs.=A0 Thus, the Questair Venture with a = turbocharged Cont 550 of course is light enough to kick = ours.

 

Drazzle.

 

Larry

 

From: = Sky2high@aol.com [mailto:Sky2high@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, February = 11, 2008 5:09 PM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Re: [LML] /360 = gear dump valve idea Transcon Record...

 

Larry,

=

 

=

I don't believe there has = been a similar problem with getting the gear down.  There is enough = energy in the system to get things moving - consider the effects of gravity on = the mains and the 100# gas spring on the nose gear.  The problem = is limited to raising the gear.  One easy way to solve the problem is = to get the pump running and break the pressure anomaly.  Thus an "up" pressure switch over ride (i.e. a hidden = momentary push-button switch accessible to the pilot) is a light weight = and simple protection against an occurrence becoming a = vexation. 

 

=

You sure the egg had a little = ole 360 in it?  Or is the yolk on you?

Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk
Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96
Aurora, = IL (KARR)

Pilot not TSO'd, Certificated score only > = 70%.

   

 

=

In a message dated 2/10/2008 = 10:00:38 P.M. Central Standard Time, LHenney@charter.net = writes:

Bryan, Gary, Randy S’s.,

 

Bryan, = yes the ball and spring get chunked.

Gary, = I’m incompetent at computer sketching but it is a one liner.  Perhaps = S.Kruger could help me.  My thought is that a 3 way dump valve will directly replace the existing dump valve.  As far as the sketch is = concerned, I would draw a line from the new dump valve to the center port of my = pump.  A piece of plane ole =BC” tubing slips in the pump and down to = near the reservoir bottom.

A possible option for the dump valve is = :

3-Way Gear Dump = Valve

Long = Beach Valve and Fitting

3940 = Gilman St

Long = Beach, CA 90815

(562) 494-6694

(562) 494-0493 = fax

Part Number:  = B-42XHS4-BKB

 

HOWEVER:  this whole 3 way dump valve may just be a = feel good solution.   In the final analysis it may be just fine as far = as safety of gear extension (electric or freefall) is concerned.  So = far there have been no indications that anyone’s gear has hesitated to = come down after cracking the dump valve (in it’s existing design).  As = I mentioned one other time, the loss of the physical handle combined with the unique = high to low pressure bleeding could pose a = problem.

 

AND:  Randy Stuarts external T shuttle sounds to be an = elegant and simple correction for the quirk which would preclude the need for = the 3 way valve.  Have you got a vendor and part that you are = considering?  We’d love the data.  Do the 2 ends of the T go High and low = pressure connections and the third leg directly to the pump return = port?

 

Disclaimer:  The above discussion is from a list of = things I’m trying to get accomplished on my speeder.  I have not done any of = the aforementioned projects to my plane (weight penalty, budget, time, honey = do’s, etc).  I haven’t even got the darn gages installed which have been = sitting in my hangar for a week.  I do appreciate the feedback from those with = more time on there hands.

 

Did anybody notice that Bruce Hammers transcontinental speed = record of Mar 06 got walloped by a blistering 30 mph.  New record 288 mph = by a Questair Venture!  Say it isn’t = so……..

 

Larry

Very Prompt Lancair 360LH

From: Bryan Wullner [mailto:vonjet@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February = 08, 2008 2:14 PM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Re: [LML] FW: = [LML] 235/320/360 gear dump valve idea

 

Randy,

When I removed the plug in my pump a spring and a steel ball came = out.  Do I remove these and then Install the 1/4" return line to this = port?

Bryan

On Feb 7, 2008 10:34 AM, LHenney <LHenney@charter.net> wrote:

Randy,

 

Hold off on the machine work.  Your pump is = designed with a third port (between the two now in use).  It is threaded and = ready for your return line.  A =BC " tubing can be installed as a = down tube in the tank (mine came with the tube installed).

 

Also, Randy Stuarts idea of a T shuttle sounds very, = very interesting.  I don't completely know what a T shuttle valve is = however.  Thus, I'm grappling with check valve analogies and getting a lot = of "how would that work?" thoughts.   Does this mean = pressure on up circuit triggers opening of shuttle from down circuit, therefore T = goes to third port???  I'm tempted to like this idea.  = Additionally, could second T also tie in to third port and allow 3 way dump common path to reservoir.  Please tell us more R. = Stuart…..

 

Larry Henney

N360LH

Much less chirping lately after changing out pump O = rings; Lancair also got more pressure gauges in stock and shipped = mine.

 

From:<= font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma> Sky2high@aol.com [mailto:Sky2high@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February = 06, 2008 2:49 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Re: [LML] = 235/320/360 gear dump valve idea

 

Randy,

 

Remember that the reservoir needs a small = vent hole so that air pressure or vacuum does not build up in the reservoir itself.  Usually the vent is in the filler cap or its = threads.

 

Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk
Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96
Aurora, = IL (KARR)

Pilot not TSO'd, Certificated score only > = 70%.

 

 

In a message dated 2/6/2008 11:29:13 A.M. Central Standard Time, randylsnarr@yahoo.com = writes:

With the way the hydraulic system is = currently designed, you equalize the pressure on the high and low sides when it is opened. For those of us who have pressure gauges, you can see that you = can have significant pressure on the system even when the valve is opened. I want = to be able to not only equalize the pressure between the high and low sides of = the hydraulic system with the dump valve but also release the pressure on = both sides.

Today I purchased a 3 way valve to do just that. The idea  is to = open the valve  connecting  the high and low sides and also releasing = the pressure back to the tank.
I will most likely run a low pressure line like nylaflow back to the = pump and make spin up a custom fitting on the lathe out of aluminum to go into = the dipstick hole and terminate the return line there. I will make a needle dipstick checker that will screw into the same fitting for checking = fluid level.
If you wanted to do it the easy way, you could always just dump the low pressure line out the belly of the airplane onto the ground. It would = take very little fluid to drop the pressure and there would be no need to deal = with connecting the low pressure fluid line to the tank.

I hate pulling the airplane out of a cool hanger into the warm sunshine = and watching the gear pressures rise to 6-700 lbs before the master switch = is turned on! We all know what happens when they hit 900. Yep no gear = retraction as the upper limit has been tripped by the system pressure.
My new valve would fix that!!!
I hope...

 

 

 



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