X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:18:12 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mtao01.charter.net ([209.225.8.186] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2726801 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:48:39 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.225.8.186; envelope-from=LHenney@charter.net Received: from aarprv06.charter.net ([10.20.200.76]) by mtao01.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.00 201-2186-121-20061213) with ESMTP id <20080212194801.JZJU24050.mtao01.charter.net@aarprv06.charter.net> for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:48:01 -0500 Received: from LHenneyLaptop ([68.118.120.245]) by aarprv06.charter.net with ESMTP id <20080212194800.WOMR14098.aarprv06.charter.net@LHenneyLaptop> for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:48:00 -0500 From: "LHenney" X-Original-To: "Lancair List" Subject: 360 gear dump valve idea Transcon Record... X-Original-Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:48:10 -0600 X-Original-Message-ID: <00bf01c86db0$32c5bab0$650fa8c0@LHenneyLaptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C0_01C86D7D.E82B4AB0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AchtrgPfQgVaO96HTSGNM2da+e41fgAAS7ww X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Chzlrs: 0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C0_01C86D7D.E82B4AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Randy, =20 Yup, Chuck, chunk or clunk it. Make sure it doesn=92t land in your = plane. Mine also had the =BC al tube in the reservoir. However, it was removed = after it was found sunk in the reservoir some time back. I=92m thinking the = tube is irrelevant because the flow of 1 directional (to the reservoir). =20 The allen plug of which we speak is betwixt the high and low pressure = ports. =20 Larry PS: The T shuttle still doesn=92t make sense to me. The idea that = pressure on the high pressure side would open the low pressure back to the = reservoir is NOT intuitively obvious to this observer. =20 =20 _____ =20 From: randy snarr [mailto:randylsnarr@yahoo.com]=20 Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 5:09 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] /360 gear dump valve idea Transcon Record... =20 Larry, What does the ball and spring do? Does the ball and spring get chucked or chunked, or maybe clunked. = Anyway, do you remove them? If memory serves, there is an allen plug somewheres = in the vicinity of the high and low ports. Is that where the below = mentioned ball and spring are to be found and replaced with the tube to the bottom = of the reservoir? Randy. LHenney wrote: Bryan, Gary, Randy S=92s., =20 Bryan, yes the ball and spring get chunked. Gary, I=92m incompetent at computer sketching but it is a one liner. = Perhaps S.Kruger could help me. My thought is that a 3 way dump valve will = directly replace the existing dump valve. As far as the sketch is concerned, I = would draw a line from the new dump valve to the center port of my pump. A = piece of plane ole =BC=94 tubing slips in the pump and down to near the = reservoir bottom. A possible option for the dump valve is : 3-Way Gear Dump Valve Long Beach Valve and Fitting 3940 Gilman St Long Beach, CA 90815 (562) 494-6694 (562) 494-0493 fax Part Number: B-42XHS4-BKB =20 HOWEVER: this whole 3 way dump valve may just be a feel good solution. = In the final analysis it may be just fine as far as safety of gear = extension (electric or freefall) is concerned. So far there have been no = indications that anyone=92s gear has hesitated to come down after cracking the dump = valve (in it=92s existing design). As I mentioned one other time, the loss of = the physical handle combined with the unique high to low pressure bleeding = could pose a problem. =20 AND: Randy Stuarts external T shuttle sounds to be an elegant and = simple correction for the quirk which would preclude the need for the 3 way = valve. Have you got a vendor and part that you are considering? We=92d love = the data. Do the 2 ends of the T go High and low pressure connections and = the third leg directly to the pump return port? =20 Disclaimer: The above discussion is from a list of things I=92m trying = to get accomplished on my speeder. I have not done any of the aforementioned projects to my plane (weight penalty, budget, time, honey do=92s, etc). = I haven=92t even got the darn gages installed which have been sitting in = my hangar for a week. I do appreciate the feedback from those with more = time on there hands. =20 Did anybody notice that Bruce Hammers transcontinental speed record of = Mar 06 got walloped by a blistering 30 mph. New record 288 mph by a = Questair Venture! Say it isn=92t so=85=85.. =20 Larry Very Prompt Lancair 360LH _____ =20 From: Bryan Wullner [mailto:vonjet@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 2:14 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] FW: [LML] 235/320/360 gear dump valve idea =20 Randy, When I removed the plug in my pump a spring and a steel ball came out. = Do I remove these and then Install the 1/4" return line to this port? Bryan On Feb 7, 2008 10:34 AM, LHenney wrote: Randy, =20 Hold off on the machine work. Your pump is designed with a third port (between the two now in use). It is threaded and ready for your return line. A =BC " tubing can be installed as a down tube in the tank (mine = came with the tube installed). =20 Also, Randy Stuarts idea of a T shuttle sounds very, very interesting. = I don't completely know what a T shuttle valve is however. Thus, I'm grappling with check valve analogies and getting a lot of "how would = that work?" thoughts. Does this mean pressure on up circuit triggers = opening of shuttle from down circuit, therefore T goes to third port??? I'm = tempted to like this idea. Additionally, could second T also tie in to third port = and allow 3 way dump common path to reservoir. Please tell us more R. = Stuart=85.. =20 Larry Henney N360LH Much less chirping lately after changing out pump O rings; Lancair also = got more pressure gauges in stock and shipped mine. =20 _____ =20 From: Sky2high@aol.com [mailto:Sky2high@aol.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:49 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] 235/320/360 gear dump valve idea =20 Randy, =20 Remember that the reservoir needs a small vent hole so that air pressure = or vacuum does not build up in the reservoir itself. Usually the vent is = in the filler cap or its threads. =20 Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96 Aurora, IL (KARR) Pilot not TSO'd, Certificated score only > 70%. =20 =20 In a message dated 2/6/2008 11:29:13 A.M. Central Standard Time, randylsnarr@yahoo.com writes: With the way the hydraulic system is currently designed, you equalize = the pressure on the high and low sides when it is opened. For those of us = who have pressure gauges, you can see that you can have significant pressure = on the system even when the valve is opened. I want to be able to not only equalize the pressure between the high and low sides of the hydraulic = system with the dump valve but also release the pressure on both sides. Today I purchased a 3 way valve to do just that. The idea is to open = the valve connecting the high and low sides and also releasing the = pressure back to the tank. I will most likely run a low pressure line like nylaflow back to the = pump and make spin up a custom fitting on the lathe out of aluminum to go = into the dipstick hole and terminate the return line there. I will make a = needle dipstick checker that will screw into the same fitting for checking = fluid level. If you wanted to do it the easy way, you could always just dump the low pressure line out the belly of the airplane onto the ground. It would = take very little fluid to drop the pressure and there would be no need to = deal with connecting the low pressure fluid line to the tank. I hate pulling the airplane out of a cool hanger into the warm sunshine = and watching the gear pressures rise to 6-700 lbs before the master switch = is turned on! We all know what happens when they hit 900. Yep no gear retraction as the upper limit has been tripped by the system pressure.=20 My new valve would fix that!!! I hope... =20 =20 _____ =20 Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. =20 =20 =20 _____ =20 Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------=_NextPart_000_00C0_01C86D7D.E82B4AB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Randy,

 

Yup, Chuck, chunk or clunk it.=A0 = Make sure it doesn’t land in your plane. Mine also had the =BC al tube in = the reservoir.=A0 However, it was removed after it was found sunk in the reservoir some = time back.=A0 I’m thinking the tube is irrelevant because the flow of 1 directional (to the reservoir).

 

The allen plug of which we speak is betwixt the high and low pressure ports.

 

Larry

PS:=A0 The T shuttle still = doesn’t make sense to me.=A0 The idea that pressure on the high pressure side = would open the low pressure back to the reservoir is NOT intuitively obvious to = this observer.

 

 

From: randy = snarr [mailto:randylsnarr@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, February = 11, 2008 5:09 PM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Re: [LML] /360 = gear dump valve idea Transcon Record...

 

Larry,
What does the ball and spring do?
Does the ball and spring get chucked or chunked, or maybe clunked. = Anyway, do you remove them? If memory serves, there is an allen plug somewheres in = the vicinity of the high and low ports. Is that where the below = mentioned  ball and spring are to be found and replaced with the tube to the bottom = of the reservoir?
Randy.

LHenney <LHenney@charter.net> = wrote:

Bryan, Gary, Randy S’s.,

 

Bryan, yes the ball and spring get = chunked.

Gary, I’m incompetent at computer sketching but it is a one liner.  Perhaps S.Kruger could help me.  My thought is that a 3 way dump = valve will directly replace the existing dump valve.  As far as the = sketch is concerned, I would draw a line from the new dump valve to the center = port of my pump.  A piece of plane ole =BC” tubing slips in the pump and = down to near the reservoir bottom.

A possible option for the dump = valve is :

3-Way Gear Dump = Valve

Long Beach Valve and = Fitting

3940 Gilman St

Long Beach, CA 90815

(562) = 494-6694

(562) 494-0493 = fax

Part Number:  = B-42XHS4-BKB

 

HOWEVER:  this whole 3 way = dump valve may just be a feel good solution.   In the final analysis it = may be just fine as far as safety of gear extension (electric or freefall) is concerned.  So far there have been no indications that = anyone’s gear has hesitated to come down after cracking the dump valve (in it’s existing design).  As I mentioned one other time, the loss of the = physical handle combined with the unique high to low pressure bleeding could pose = a problem.

 

AND:  Randy Stuarts external T shuttle sounds to be an elegant and simple correction for the quirk = which would preclude the need for the 3 way valve.  Have you got a vendor and = part that you are considering?  We’d love the data.  Do the 2 = ends of the T go High and low pressure connections and the third leg directly = to the pump return port?

 

Disclaimer:  The above = discussion is from a list of things I’m trying to get accomplished on my = speeder.  I have not done any of the aforementioned projects to my plane (weight = penalty, budget, time, honey do’s, etc).  I haven’t even got the = darn gages installed which have been sitting in my hangar for a week.  I = do appreciate the feedback from those with more time on there = hands.

 

Did anybody notice that Bruce = Hammers transcontinental speed record of Mar 06 got walloped by a blistering 30 mph.  New record 288 mph by a Questair Venture!  Say it = isn’t so……..

 

Larry

Very Prompt Lancair = 360LH

From: Bryan = Wullner [mailto:vonjet@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February = 08, 2008 2:14 PM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Re: [LML] FW: = [LML] 235/320/360 gear dump valve idea

 

Randy,

When I removed the plug in my pump a spring and a steel ball came = out.  Do I remove these and then Install the 1/4" return line to this = port?

Bryan



On = Feb 7, 2008 10:34 AM, LHenney <LHenney@charter.net> wrote:

Randy,

 

Hold off on the machine work.  = Your pump is designed with a third port (between the two now in use).  = It is threaded and ready for your return line.  A =BC " tubing can = be installed as a down tube in the tank (mine came with the tube = installed).

 

Also, Randy Stuarts idea of a T = shuttle sounds very, very interesting.  I don't completely know what a T = shuttle valve is however.  Thus, I'm grappling with check valve analogies = and getting a lot of "how would that work?" thoughts. =   Does this mean pressure on up circuit triggers opening of shuttle from down = circuit, therefore T goes to third port???  I'm tempted to like this = idea.  Additionally, could second T also tie in to third port and allow 3 way = dump common path to reservoir.  Please tell us more R. = Stuart…..

 

Larry = Henney

N360LH

Much less chirping lately after = changing out pump O rings; Lancair also got more pressure gauges in stock and = shipped mine.

 

From: Sky2high@aol.com = [mailto:Sky2high@aol.com] =
Sent: Wednesday, February = 06, 2008 2:49 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Re: [LML] = 235/320/360 gear dump valve idea

 

Randy,

=

 

=

Remember that the reservoir needs = a small vent hole so that air pressure or vacuum does not build up in the = reservoir itself.  Usually the vent is in the filler cap or its = threads.

 

=

Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk
Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96
Aurora, IL = (KARR)

Pilot not TSO'd, Certificated score only > = 70%.

 

=

 

=

In a message dated 2/6/2008 = 11:29:13 A.M. Central Standard Time, randylsnarr@yahoo.com writes:

With the way the hydraulic system = is currently designed, you equalize the pressure on the high and low sides = when it is opened. For those of us who have pressure gauges, you can see that = you can have significant pressure on the system even when the valve is opened. I = want to be able to not only equalize the pressure between the high and low = sides of the hydraulic system with the dump valve but also release the pressure = on both sides.

Today I purchased a 3 way valve to do just that. The idea  is to = open the valve  connecting  the high and low sides and also releasing = the pressure back to the tank.
I will most likely run a low pressure line like nylaflow back to the = pump and make spin up a custom fitting on the lathe out of aluminum to go into = the dipstick hole and terminate the return line there. I will make a needle dipstick checker that will screw into the same fitting for checking = fluid level.
If you wanted to do it the easy way, you could always just dump the low pressure line out the belly of the airplane onto the ground. It would = take very little fluid to drop the pressure and there would be no need to deal = with connecting the low pressure fluid line to the tank.

I hate pulling the airplane out of a cool hanger into the warm sunshine = and watching the gear pressures rise to 6-700 lbs before the master switch = is turned on! We all know what happens when they hit 900. Yep no gear = retraction as the upper limit has been tripped by the system pressure.
My new valve would fix that!!!
I hope...

 

=

 

 

 

=A0

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

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