Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #45831
From: Bob sinclair <n320sierra@msn.com>
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: L-320/360, Large vs small horizontal tail
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:38:01 -0500
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
Group,

To weigh in on behalf of the small tail ........ 

Maybe I'm missing something but my machine has the small tail and Dick Reichels' geared elevator
trim mechanism, a little over 1,100 lbs empty weight, the original shorter engine mount and it seems
to handle in a totally predictable way in every flight regime that I've experienced in close to 300 hours
flight time.

The approach-to-landing behavior is rock solid and well-behaved (even in turbulent air) with no appreciable or unexpected yaw tendencies.  I dial in just enough elevator trim force to mostly cancel
the forward pitching moment as the flaps are lowered on final approach ....... leaving in just enough
resistance to provide a solid feel in the stick during the roundout and landing.   I have a single axis
autopilot but haven't felt the need for the altitude hold or pitch axis control capability as in cruise mode
the plane tends to maintain a steady altitude affected only by rising and descending air currents.

On a few occasions I've flown with full or close to full fuel and seventy pounds or thereabouts in the baggage area.   No question there is a loss of stick force in the landing configuration with an extreme
aft CG loading condition, particularly at slow speed prior to touchdown.   This is entirely manageable
if one remembers that its not 'stick force' that matters ......... its 'descent rate' and a soft arrival that
counts ......... so easy does it!

A final thought ...... maybe there's a call for a "small tail officianados" subset group.    George ........
will you lead the charge?    I would hope so,  because you saved my small tail when those nasty fellow
EAA'ers threatened to cut it off with their chain saw at the height of the mid-ninetys' tail debate!
Small tails forever!

Bob Sinclair     Lancair N320S      Lafayette, California      n320sierra@msn.com



To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:46:58 -0500
From: Sky2high@aol.com
Subject: [LML] Re: MKII tail vs original tail??

Dom,
 
My hackles are in shackles.
 
I am not a test pilot (Hmmmmm, not trained anyway), but I stayed in a Holiday Inn once.  While the OZ analysis is true, there are ways to ameliorate the unfriendly small tail characteristics.  Here are some thoughts gained over 850 hours behind the stick of a 320 and generally within a 100 feet of a purposely hand held altitude in reasonably smooth air. 
 
1. Neutral to negative longitudinal stability confirmed.  Recognize it, understand it, deal with it (one way is with a larger tail, there are others).
2. Every Lancair 200/300 series is uniquely customized and details of handling may differ while general characteristics could and should be understood.
3. Instrument approaches in smooth air are a moderate challenge and whilst in turbulent air, they are more interesting. (I believe that is a quote from the Marquis de Sade shortly after he went flying in his 360.)
 
OK, here is a limited description of my components, customization and their consequences.
a. Slow built 320, 1200 # empty weight and empty CG a hair forward of specs.
b. Properly installed bob-weight with the elevator bell crank arm reduced to 3" (stick throw reduced by 25%, forces increased from none to some). 60 degree banked (2G) full circle steep turns to the left with cruise trim untouched require far more than 7 lbs of pull to hold altitude (no opposite rudder) and the need for the pull is quite delayed after first entering the turn.  Right turns require less force and and the need to apply the full holding force is delayed further than those steep turns to the left.  Holding the altitude within 50 feet throughout the 360 turn is a real challenge.  720 degree turns are easier because by then you've got it - until you hit your self induced burble.  Drat.
c. I have the Reichel geared trim wheel with stronger springs to compensate for the shorter arm.  In cruise, spring controlled trim characteristics add to the sensitivity in pitch because of the broad dead band of little spring force exerted at the trimmed position, thus the non-holding spring is relaxed and, if the plane is "balanced," even the hold spring is not pushing very hard.  In slow flight with flaps at some extension, the holding spring is under greater tension and the sensitivity is somewhat reduced.  I cannot compare my flight characteristics to Lancairs equipped with tabbed-elevator trim systems.
d. My horizontal tail surfaces are thinner than the plans call for.  Don't ask.  I don't know if there is a flight effect from that, but it is different than the design.  I also have gap seals with unknown effect on elevator/pitch controlability.
e. More forward CG results in a more stabilized pitch control.  The rear quarter of the CG range results in much less stability than the front half.  Be aware of this when loading the plane.  Lancair moved the CG forward 1.5 inches without a detrimental effect (3" longer engine mount to compensate for added weight from the larger tail that moved the CG aftward).  So, keep the CG more forward for better flights.
 
Observed behavior and/or techniques to compensate:
i. Some have experienced an extreme nose bobbing when slipping at slow air speeds.  Try as I might, I could only induce gentle sinusoidal bobbing, different from left or right (I don't remember which was more).  Since I fly differently than others (Don't we all?), I have little use for slip attitudes until just above the runway.  If not on an instrument approach, slow down early, fly a higher pattern, fly a steeper final descent angle, carefully control the speed (AOA has helped).
ii. With respect to slow flight when nearing the airfield - in my airplane, throttle back and slow to 160 KIAS early, tick the flaps out of reflex (resulting in rapid loss of airspeed and lowering the nose) and re-trim.  A stabilized slow speed approach(110 to 120 KIAS) at low power with flaps at the takeoff position and everything trimmed is the most stabilized, comfortable and with the least workload.  Final at 85-90 Kts.
iii. The lack of longitudinal stability is a bummer during an approach:  Change of speed <=> change of attitude <=> change of descent rate.  Note the double pointed arrows.  Instrument approach workload is increased when trying to manage these.  Turbulence does not assist the pilot. 
iv. Gap seals have provided a benefit such that the rudder came alive at a lower airspeed (maybe 5 to 10 Kts).  I cannot say I noticed a difference with respect to the elevator.  Gap seals are high maintenance items unless they are built-in during construction.
v. I cannot get my Lancair to enter a turn by applying strong rudder inputs (Hmmmm, maybe I only tested this at cruise speeds).  In other words, I do not feel much, if any, roll tendencies from applying the rudder in level flight at cruise speeds.  I don't remember if I had to compensate for roll in the bobbing tests.  The feel is different from left to right rudder.
 
The conclusion for me:  Yes, in certain flight regimes where stability is desirable, it would be nice to have that stability available by design.  Understanding your steed's characteristics can be useful if you remember to take those into account when flying.  There are many experimental and aerobatic planes extant that are twitchy - deal with them for they are not as forgiving as those designed to be fool-proof.
 
Possible conclusions for others:  Man, this ain't no spam can.  Experiences will vary.  Learn it. Love it.  Stay on your toes. Use O2 as needed. Pay attention to Mother Nature.  Occasionally look out the window.  Don't do noth'n stoopid!
 
Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk
Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96
Aurora, IL (KARR)

Pilot not TSO'd, Certificated score only > 70%.
 
PS:  Is it possible the CG range was originally computed from the un-reflexed wing characteristics?  That is, computed from the "normal" wing shape and thus set too far aft?
 
 
In a message dated 1/13/2008 7:31:02 A.M. Central Standard Time, domcrain@tpg.com.au writes:

The recent comments regarding the Small v. Big tail draw my attention to the fact that on a recent visit to the wide brown land up over, LML lister Angier was privileged to see two examples of large tail Lancair's. One belonging to me (didn’t build it), and the other being the example quoted in the attached letter to Rob Wolf’s post “A look at Lancair 360 Handling Qualities”. Now owned by another lister here.

The only Lancair’s I have handled in the air were all large tail versions, with one exception, that being N5ZQ in the States. Bill will undoubtedly recall that I was – let’s say “ropey” – to say the least. While I am prepared to accept that is my lack of skill, and I reflect long and hard on this after each flight I have made over forty odd years, I do come to the conclusion that there is a distinct improvement in stability and handling of the Lancair with the large tail.

Over the past few months –almost a year actually, there has been a slow but steady approach to the improvement of training of, and understanding by, Lancair pilots here up over, brought on by the historical global accident rate, and highlighted by two fatals within six days in Australia, 20 months ago.

A Lancair Pilot Group has been established, and having been asked to be involved, I have sought advice from various sources regarding their views on the matter of Lancair training and opinions on handling.

In this process I have had email discussions with the test pilot who undertook some of the test flying on the Lancair which resulted in the recommendation to enlarge the tail.

I quote from the email I received from one him on 20 September 2007:

“…….When the first example (a 320 I think?) was evaluated, it was found to have 2 major design problems/defects.  First the aft CG condition was unrealistic (in excess of 30% MAC), and the horizontal stabiliser was too small.  Combined these resulted in neutral or negative stick free longitudinal stability.  Also manoeuvre stability (stick force per G) was at best measured in ounces per G.  Standard comment from then owners was"I like it like that because it has fighter like feel."  These pilots had obviously never flown a fighter, at least not one built since about 1920, which all have positive long stab, and minimum stick forces of about 7 lb/G. 

CASA insisted (under the good/bad old 101.28 rule) that stability be improved.  I think the aft CG limit was moved forward (not sure how much) and bigger tails were required.  The bigger tails (2 local REG 35 solutions by Graham Swannel and Dave Simons) produced adequate solutions, but the practicalities of keeping CG forward remained.  The Lancair 235/230/360 models also have negative lateral sideslip stability; with a low wing and no dihedral the predominant rolling force in a sideslip is due to the rudder.  This characteristic is rarely seen, and is disturbing when deliberately sideslipping during cross wind approaches.  For IFR approval, CASA insisted this be fixed and a rudder/aileron interconnect was developed (I think by Dave Simons) which produced apparent lateral sideslip stability and hence predictable handling qualities in sideslip.

The kit manufacturer was not amused by these criticisms of his creation and refused to have anything to do with them.  However, shortly after CASA came the heavy, Aviation Consumer magazine in the US conducted some flight tests on the Lancair, and another fast plastic of similar size and shape, and concluded their findings with some not very flattering remarks along the lines of ......... how dare you foist on the unsuspecting public expensive machines with such bad design features........ - I was very pleased to hear this as it vindicated the position taken by CASA and other professional Test Pilots who had flown the machines. 

Very quickly the manufacturer of kit X came out with a bigger tail (about 50% bigger!), and some advice on how to fix the CG problem.  Lancair eventually did the same……”

CASA is the current name for the old CAA here up over. Under a Labour Government, the name changes every few weeks to create jobs. Although the quote uses the current term CASA, at the time of testing the authority was called CAA.

Hopefully this will help, if not cause the usual broad-ranging hackles raising.

Cheers,

Dom Crain

VH-CZJ

Melbourne

Not Florida





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