Return-Path: Received: from pop3.olsusa.com ([63.150.212.2] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.2) with ESMTP id 1021245 for rob@logan.com; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 01:49:52 -0500 Received: from C9Mailgw03.prontomail.com ([216.163.188.201]) by pop3.olsusa.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-71866U8000L800S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 11:53:15 -0500 Received: from c9service11.amadis.com (10.9.0.1) by C9Mailgw03.prontomail.com (NPlex 5.5.029) id 3BED3FB900632EAA for lancair.list@olsusa.com; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 08:47:28 -0800 Received: from regandesigns.com (148.64.75.213) by c9service11.amadis.com (NPlex 5.5.042) id 3C256D7C000463D1 for lancair.list@olsusa.com; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 08:51:04 -0800 Message-ID: <3C39D269.80507@regandesigns.com> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 08:52:57 -0800 From: Brent Regan User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lancair List Subject: RE: Thrust and np Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: lancair.list@olsusa.com Reply-To: lancair.list@olsusa.com <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Eric Writes: <> T = 550 * np * HP / V Where: T = thrust in pounds; HP = brake horsepower imparted to the propeller, SAE net for all you gear heads; V = velocity in feet per second; 550: necessary to convert HP (ft.*lb./min) to comply with V in fps;>> Let me help you out here, Eric. A horsepower is defined as the ability to lift 550 pounds one foot in one second (not 1 minute) (or 1 pound 550 feet in one second, or ....) so if we multiply Horsepower by 550 we get Work expressed in foot pounds/second. If we now multiply by velocity (feet / second) the feet and seconds cancel leaving us T = np * Tp(pounds of thrust the prop should be developing if there were no losses). Rearrange the equation to T/Tp = np where np is the ratio between actual thrust and theoretical thrust or, as you point out, Efficiency Factor. If you multiply by 100 you can express it in PerCent. 0.84 = 84/100 = 84%. Now I think that most of the learned readers on this list appreciate the fact that if you tie the tail of your plane to a tree and firewall the throttles you will produce a lot of thrust (force) but no velocity (if the tree is big enough) so the ability of the propeller to convert horsepower into USEFUL work is zero (My coffee cup is exerting force on my desk but there is no motion so there is no work being done). How can this be? The engine is faithfully turing gasoline into torque and rpm. Where is the horsepower going? If you put your head out the cabin door it will become immediately obvious. What "np" is depends on what you are calling thrust. Is it the force that propeller exerts on the crankshaft in the direction of flight? The tension in the rope that is tied to the tree? If Thrust is defined as the force required to pull the airplane through the air and V is the velocity of the airplane then would not "np" be the "Propulsion Efficiency" you mention? Curious readers want to know. Regards. Brent Regan Regan Designs Idaho USA Earth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LML website: http://members.olsusa.com/mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please remember that purchases from the Builders' Bookstore assist with the management of the LML. Please send your photos and drawings to marvkaye@olsusa.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>