X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:01:57 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from rwcrmhc15.comcast.net ([204.127.192.85] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1c.3) with ESMTP id 1376329 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 05:24:54 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.192.85; envelope-from=mjrav@comcast.net Received: from mark1 (c-65-96-139-16.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[65.96.139.16]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc15) with SMTP id <20060912092412m1500nokc9e>; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:24:12 +0000 X-Original-Message-ID: <001a01c6d64e$b4480610$108b6041@mark1> From: "Mark Ravinski" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Subject: LNC 320 vs 360 performance. X-Original-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 05:34:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C6D62D.2CB79920" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1807 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C6D62D.2CB79920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ian, Looks like you were right on top of this. It's a good example of why = these planes can be more dangerous than a 172. Once, I had an experience that taught me some respect. I took off = downwind (10 kts maybe) on tall grass in a piper vagabond which is like = a cub. I almost brushed the trees on departure from this 3000+ ft = strip. Tall grass and any tailwind are a bad combination. Small wheels would = be more draggy also, especially on soft ground. When you go from 10 kts = headwind to 10 kts tailwind, that's 20 kts more groundspeed you need to = get airborne. With more wheel drag, those 20 are slower coming. Your = speed while you are trying to get the 20 is eating runway fast. A little wind can go a long way towards making trouble. Mark Ravinski N360KB 1390 hrs. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ian Crowe=20 To: Lancair Mailing List=20 Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 11:59 PM Subject: [LML] LNC 320 vs 360 performance. On the subject of grass strips I am still up tight over the experience = I had last Sunday. I fly a Lancair 360 with a 200HP Lycoming, Hartzell = constant speed prop, outback gear. A 3000' strip, 3"grass, not smooth but reasonably so, dry, wind = fluctuating from 90 degree crosswind to directly on the nose and even to = a light tail wind component, gusty.Tees at start of take off giving = gusty conditions. Wind speed <10 Knots, 600' elevation, temperature 24C. = A/C weight 1850 lbs. Attempted take off, I could not believe how long it took for the = airspeed to come alive, I thought I had left the pitot cover on, the = speed did come up to 60 knots, my normal rotation speed and I rotated, = gust of wind, right wing dipped, my abort point was there and I quit = whilst I was ahead. I had used a good 2000 feet and stopped easily in = the distance remaining. Did a run up at full power, 2700rpm, 30"Hg, neglgible mag drop. Took = off without my passenger using a short field take off, air borne without = problem before my abort point. Landed and took on passenger. Took off with passenger the second time using short field technique. = Off without too much of a problem but was closer to my abort point than = when I was on my own. Short field take off is harder to control on a = runway that is rougher than an artificial surface. I was totally blown away by the experience. !72's were out of there = with no problem at all but all my power did not work for me. Is it the small wheels on the rougher grass surface or finger trouble = on the part of your's truly? Ian B. Crowe LNC 2 C-FKRO ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C6D62D.2CB79920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ian,
Looks like you were right on top of = this. =20 It's a good example of why these planes can be more dangerous than a=20 172.
Once, I had an experience that taught = me some=20 respect.  I took off downwind (10 kts maybe) on tall grass in a = piper=20 vagabond which is like a cub.  I almost brushed the trees on = departure from=20 this 3000+ ft strip.
Tall grass and any tailwind are a bad=20 combination.  Small wheels would be more draggy also, especially on = soft=20 ground.  When you go from 10 kts headwind to 10 kts tailwind, = that's 20 kts=20 more groundspeed you need to get airborne.  With more wheel drag, = those 20=20 are slower coming.  Your speed while you are trying to get the 20 = is eating=20 runway fast.
A little wind can go a long way = towards making=20 trouble.
 
Mark Ravinski
N360KB  1390 hrs.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ian=20 Crowe
Sent: Monday, September 11, = 2006 11:59=20 PM
Subject: [LML] LNC 320 vs 360=20 performance.

On the subject of grass strips I am = still up=20 tight over the experience I had last Sunday.  I fly a Lancair 360 = with a=20 200HP Lycoming, Hartzell constant speed prop, outback = gear.
 
A 3000' strip, 3"grass, not smooth = but reasonably=20 so, dry, wind fluctuating from 90 degree crosswind to directly on the = nose and=20 even to a light tail wind component, gusty.Tees at start of take off = giving=20 gusty conditions. Wind speed <10 Knots, 600' elevation,=20 temperature 24C.  A/C weight 1850 lbs.
 
 Attempted take off, I could not = believe how=20 long it took for the airspeed to come alive, I thought I had left the = pitot=20 cover on, the speed did come up to 60 knots, my normal rotation speed = and I=20 rotated, gust of wind, right wing dipped, my abort point was there and = I quit=20 whilst I was ahead.  I had used a good 2000 feet and stopped = easily in=20 the distance remaining.
 
Did a run up at full power, 2700rpm, = 30"Hg,=20 neglgible mag drop.  Took off without my passenger using a short = field=20 take off, air borne without problem before my abort point. Landed and = took on=20 passenger.
 
Took off with passenger the second = time using=20 short field technique.  Off without too much of a problem but was = closer=20 to my abort point than when I was on my own. Short field take off is = harder to=20 control on a runway that is rougher than an artificial = surface.
 
I was totally blown away by the = experience. =20 !72's were out of there with no problem at all but all my power did = not work=20 for me.
 
Is it the small wheels on  the = rougher grass=20 surface or finger trouble on the part of your's truly?
 
Ian B. Crowe
LNC 2  = C-FKRO
 
 
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