X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 18:03:58 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from smtp114.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.213] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with SMTP id 1118725 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 18 May 2006 12:35:45 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.142.198.213; envelope-from=elippse@sbcglobal.net Received: (qmail 66562 invoked from network); 18 May 2006 16:35:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Computerroom) (elippse@sbcglobal.net@75.15.124.219 with login) by smtp114.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2006 16:35:00 -0000 X-Original-Message-ID: <007001c67a99$06627aa0$db7c0f4b@Computerroom> From: "Paul Lipps" X-Original-To: "Marv Kaye" Subject: More on bank angle X-Original-Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 09:35:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006D_01C67A5E.59748200" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006D_01C67A5E.59748200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 'Received the following from someone I had shown the test my friend had = performed and the math exercise I did. More food for thought! "I did an article about this a few years ago, and did the same tests = myself using a Cherokee Arrow. My impression was that in the heat of the = moment it is difficult to maintain bank angle, airspeed etc where you = want them, and besides, you need to turn more than 180 degrees because = you are essentially doing a procedure turn. I discussed the whole = question with Dick Rutan, who at some point did, or had done (I forget = which), a bunch of tests for some flight display he was doing or = something, and had concluded that 45 degrees is the optimum bank angle = for minimum loss of altitude in a power-off turn. I think that can be = shown mathematically in a more direct, purer way than the letter = suggests, but I don't remember how. Perhaps the best thing to do would = be to go wing-vertical at first, and than gradually level out through = the turn, maintaining 1 G. If the crux of the matter is time spent in the turn versus rate of = descent, you would think that since speed would increase in proportion = to the 2nd or 3rd root of descent rate, it would be a bad idea to let = speed build up; but apparently not. In any case, extra speed is extra = insurance against a secondary stall when rolling out of the turn." ------=_NextPart_000_006D_01C67A5E.59748200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

'Received the following = from someone=20 I had shown the test my friend had performed and the math exercise I = did. More=20 food for thought!

"I did an article about = this a few=20 years ago, and did the same tests myself using a Cherokee Arrow. My = impression=20 was that in the heat of the moment it is difficult to maintain bank = angle,=20 airspeed etc where you want them, and besides, you need to turn more = than 180=20 degrees because you are essentially doing a procedure turn. I discussed = the=20 whole question with Dick Rutan, who at some point did, or had done (I = forget=20 which), a bunch of tests for some flight display he was doing or = something, and=20 had concluded that 45 degrees is the optimum bank angle for minimum loss = of=20 altitude in a power-off turn. I think that can be shown mathematically = in a more=20 direct, purer way than the letter suggests, but I don't remember how. = Perhaps=20 the best thing to do would be to go wing-vertical at first, and than = gradually=20 level out through the turn, maintaining 1 G.

If the crux of the = matter is=20 time spent in the turn versus rate of descent, you would think that = since speed=20 would increase in proportion to the 2nd or 3rd root of descent rate, it = would be=20 a bad idea to let speed build up; but apparently not. In any case, extra = speed=20 is extra insurance against a secondary stall when rolling out of the=20 turn."

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