X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:30:29 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mxsf35.cluster1.charter.net ([209.225.28.160] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTP id 1086399 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 17:20:10 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.225.28.160; envelope-from=troneill@charter.net Received: from mxip21a.cluster1.charter.net (mxip21a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.151]) by mxsf35.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k3ULJOia016497 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 17:19:24 -0400 Received: from 68-184-229-22.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com (HELO axs) ([68.184.229.22]) by mxip21a.cluster1.charter.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 2006 17:19:24 -0400 X-Original-Message-ID: <009b01c66c9b$c06ff050$6501a8c0@axs> From: "terrence o'neill" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: AOA X-Original-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:19:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0098_01C66C71.D74C1670" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01C66C71.D74C1670 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dom, You just have to try it. That's how I learned... and haven't met many I = could convey the realities to, with words. Words are different for = different folks. I don;t knwo what a 'one shot glide approach is, or = what John was really describing when he said 'sink rate'... If he was = just losing altitude faster, then he needed to add power to get smore = velocity to reduce his AOA to max L/D ... if he was flyign straight. If = he was in a bank, then roll out first. The simplest thing is to have an = indicater on which you can SEE your wing's AOA, and the mark on it that = stands for stall. T N211AL ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dominic V Crain=20 To: Lancair Mailing List=20 Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 12:51 PM Subject: [LML] Re: AOA Terrence - I enjoyed your treatise on the AOA and reason(s) for having = it installed. However, I would disagree slightly with your conclusion, and I am not = pretending to be anymore expert than the average survivor of a long span = civilian career now private aviator. The description John used, quote: "I see report after report of = experienced pilots stalling out while pulling high g's low or trying to = get to a runway after an engine failure by doing a very steep turn and = not understanding what happens to sink rate if you do that" unquote, is, = in my humble view, correct. The sink rate under that condition is the first effect of his = example. I'll bet the average pilot, with that condition, will react by = way of more back stick which further approaches, or exceeds the critical = angle. Now, from basic, now forgotten training, the recovery from steep bank = angle sink rates is to roll out and then apply pitch control. This = should be instinctive. I realize easier said than remembered, especially = if aiming for a one shot glide approach. But better to do that, than = stall at an unrecoverable altitude. I think it is fair to say that pilots who operate in a changing = configuration, such as a one shot glide approach, once they commence = reducing below the optimum L/D speed, should be increasing their = awareness of STALL, and hopefully maintain the correct margins even if = the aiming point is degraded. I still say it would be great to have an AOA indicator, but I would = still fly it as a useful tool, rather than a primary means if control. Regards fellas, Dom Crain ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01C66C71.D74C1670 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dom,
You just have to = try it. =20 That's how I learned... and haven't met many I could convey the = realities to,=20 with words.  Words are different for different folks.  I don;t = knwo=20 what a 'one shot glide approach is, or what John was really describing = when he=20 said 'sink rate'... If he was just losing altitude faster, then he = needed to add=20 power to get smore velocity to reduce his AOA to max L/D ... if he was = flyign=20 straight.  If he was in a bank, then roll out first.  The = simplest=20 thing is to have an indicater on which you can SEE your wing's AOA, and = the mark=20 on it that stands for stall.
T = N211AL
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Dominic V=20 Crain
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 = 12:51=20 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: AOA

Terrence =96 I enjoyed your = treatise on the=20 AOA and reason(s) for having it installed.

However, I would disagree = slightly with=20 your conclusion, and I am not pretending to be anymore expert than the = average=20 survivor of a long span civilian career now private = aviator.

The description John used, = quote:=20 =93I=20 see report after report of experienced pilots stalling out while = pulling high=20 g's low or trying to get to a runway after an engine failure by doing = a very=20 steep turn and not understanding what happens to sink rate if you do = that=94=20 unquote,=20 is, in my humble view, correct.

 The sink rate under that = condition=20 is the first effect of his example. I=92ll bet the average pilot, with = that=20 condition, will react by way of more back stick which further = approaches, or=20 exceeds the critical angle.

Now, from basic, now forgotten = training,=20 the recovery from steep bank angle sink rates is to roll out and then = apply=20 pitch control. This should be instinctive. I realize easier said than=20 remembered, especially if aiming for a one shot glide approach. But = better to=20 do that, than stall at an unrecoverable altitude.

I think it is fair to say that = pilots who=20 operate in a changing configuration, such as a one shot glide = approach, once=20 they commence reducing below the optimum L/D speed, should be = increasing their=20 awareness of STALL, and hopefully maintain the correct margins even if = the=20 aiming point is degraded.

I still say it would be great = to have an=20 AOA indicator, but I would still fly it as a useful tool, rather than = a=20 primary means if control.

Regards = fellas,

Dom Crain

 

 

 

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