X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 01:50:41 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com ([205.188.139.136] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.7f) with ESMTP id 941083 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 22 Jan 2006 09:58:59 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.139.136; envelope-from=VTAILJEFF@aol.com Received: from VTAILJEFF@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id q.21f.6a7030b (57293) for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2006 09:58:05 -0500 (EST) From: VTAILJEFF@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <21f.6a7030b.3104f77d@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 09:58:05 EST Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Runway checks, passes, flybys. X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1137941885" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5021 X-Spam-Flag: NO -------------------------------1137941885 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en =20 In a message dated 1/22/2006 1:14:10 AM Central Standard Time, =20 marv@lancaironline.net writes: Jeff's post was outrageously condescending, preachy and overly generalized. Flying fast is not flying unsafe and flying fast is not flying =20 irresponsibly. There is a time and place for everything and everything has its appropriate place. With 25 years in the attack Navy I am reminded why I loved single seat so much. George,=20 I guess you and I do not see eye to eye on this subject. I say it is a=20 dangerous and you say it is not. The FAR's and AIM do not agree with you no= r=20 condone this kind of flying and the Navy did not either. Flathatting is add= ressed=20 in OPNAV 3710. If you were a squadron CO and saw one of your JO's doing th= is=20 at your local NAS would you (a) slap him on the back and say "well done" or= =20 (b) put him in "hack"? Probably (b). =20 Not everyone agrees with you including the FAA around here as well as some=20 of your brethren Lancair types. Here are a few replies I got in the past fe= w=20 days from folks on the LML. =20 Lancair CFI ---"The best thing about the LML is it lets me know who has the= =20 decision making skills to actually be flying these aircraft and who should=20= be=20 flying a powered parachute. There are reasons why at airshows all fly bys=20 are limited to =E2=80=9CAt or Above 500=E2=80=99 AGL=E2=80=9D even if you h= ave a F.A.S.T. ticket." =20 Another one... "Well reasoned and well said. And thank you for putting it on the net. =20 It really galls me to see someone do a high speed pass and to hear others =20 bragging about doing it - under the guise of "checking the runway...". I =20 live on an air park and see it all the time."=20 There have been five serious or fatal Lancair accidents that can be=20 attributed to pilots deliberately flying very low over the airfield, house=20= or even=20 the desert. One involved an airline pilot that killed himself and his daugh= ter.=20 His NTSB summary is quoted here...."The airplane dove into a residential=20 property adjacent to the pilot's residence in near-vertical flight. Neighbo= rs=20 believed the pilot intended to fly over his home to alert his wife prior to= =20 landing at the nearby airport. The neighbor, in whose front yard the airpla= ne=20 crashed, reported there was a brief whining sound before the crash. When he= =20 opened the front door, the wreckage was in his front yard within a few feet= of=20 the house."=20 I have always recommended in this forum that people fly safely, responsibly= =20 and within the regulations. Brent Regan says, "don't let your kid fly the=20 airplane," and if you have seen his presentation this is clearly one of tho= se=20 cases. A couple of years ago I had a running "discussion" with a builder/ f= lier=20 that thought the airworthiness regulations did not apply to him because he=20 could troubleshoot problems from the cockpit. Within a year he was killed=20 after he took off with a known engine problem and the engine quit. He fail= ed to=20 fly the aircraft correctly and ended up short of his divert field. In short= ,=20 he did not want, need, nor heed all the great advice he got from many other= =20 pilots and instructors. Shannon Knoepflin is missed by many folks on this li= st.=20 =20 There have been ten fatalities in Lancairs in the last 12 months. Many of=20 the accidents were related to poor decision making-- the very subject we ar= e=20 addressing here. I make no apologies for my tone when I see pilots bragging= =20 about doing stupid things on this list that only serve to encourage others=20= to=20 try the same stupid stunt. In short, all of us should get "condescending,=20 preachy, etc," when someone here says "gee I'm bored flying this machine, l= et's=20 go out and do something really stupid and fun and kill ourselves". =20 Regards,=20 Jeff Edwards=20 LIVP N619SJ=20 _www.avsafe.com_ (http://www.avsafe.com) =20 -------------------------------1137941885 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
In a message dated 1/22/2006 1:14:10 AM Central Standard Time,=20 marv@lancaironline.net writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>Jeff's=20 post was outrageously condescending, preachy and overly generalized.
&n= bsp;=20 Flying fast is not flying unsafe and flying fast is not flying=20
irresponsibly.
  There is a time and place for everything and=20 everything has its appropriate
place.
 
  With 25 year= s in=20 the attack Navy I am reminded why I loved single seat=20 so
much.

 

George,

 

I guess you and I do not see eye= to eye=20 on this subject. I say it is a dangerous and you say it is not. The FAR's an= d=20 AIM do not agree with you nor condone this kind of flying and the Navy did n= ot=20 either. Flathatting is addressed in  OPNAV 3710. If you were a squadron= CO=20 and saw one of your JO's doing this at your local NAS would you (a) slap him= on=20 the back and say "well done" or (b) put him in "hack"? Probably (b).=20

 

Not everyone agrees with you inc= luding=20 the FAA around here as well as some of your brethren Lancair types. Here are= a=20 few replies I got in the past few days from folks on the LML. =

 <= /P>

Lancair CFI ---"The best thing a= bout the=20 LML is it lets me know who has the decision making skills to actually be fly= ing=20 these aircraft and who should be flying a powered parachute. There are reaso= ns=20 why at airshows all fly bys are limited to =E2=80=9CAt or Above 500=E2=80= =99 AGL=E2=80=9D even if you=20 have a F.A.S.T. ticket." 

Another one...
"Well reasoned= and=20 well said. And thank you for putting it on the net.

It really galls me to see someone do a high spe= ed=20 pass and to hear others 
bragging about doing it - under the guise=20= of=20 "checking the runway...". I 
live on an air park and see it all the= =20 time."

 

There have been five serious or fatal Lancair=20 accidents that can be attributed to pilots deliberately flying very low= =20 over the airfield, house or even the desert. One involved an airline pi= lot=20 that killed himself and his daughter. His NTSB summary is quoted here...."Th= e=20 airplane dove into a residential property adjacent to the pilot's residence=20= in=20 near-vertical flight. Neighbors believed the pilot intended to fly over his=20= home=20 to alert his wife prior to landing at the nearby airport. The neighbor, in w= hose=20 front yard the airplane crashed, reported there was a brief whining sound be= fore=20 the crash. When he opened the front door, the wreckage was in his front yard= =20 within a few feet of the house."

 

I have always recommended in this forum that pe= ople=20 fly safely, responsibly and within the regulations. Brent Regan says,=20 "don't let your kid fly the airplane," and if you have seen his presentation= =20 this is clearly one of those cases. A couple of years ago I had a running=20 "discussion" with a builder/ flier that thought the airworthiness regulation= s=20 did not apply to him because he could troubleshoot problems from the cockpit= .=20 Within a year he was killed after he took off with a known engine problem an= d=20 the engine quit.  He failed to fly the aircraft correctly and ended up=20 short of his divert field. In short, he did not want, need, nor heed al= l=20 the great advice he got from many other pilots and instructors. Shannon Knoepflin is missed by many folks on this list.=20

 

There have been ten fatalities in Lancairs in t= he=20 last 12 months. Many of the accidents were related to poor decision making--= the=20 very subject we are addressing here. I make no apologies for my tone when=20 I see pilots bragging about doing stupid things on this list that only=20 serve to encourage others to try the same stupid stunt.  In short, all=20= of=20 us should get "condescending, preachy, etc," when someone here says "gee I'm= =20 bored flying this machine, let's go out and do something really stupid and f= un=20 and kill ourselves".

 

Regards,

 

Jeff Edwards

LIVP N619SJ

www.avsafe.com

 

 

 

 


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