X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 11:18:41 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com ([64.12.138.204] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c5) with ESMTP id 941188 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 12 May 2005 10:20:41 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.138.204; envelope-from=VTAILJEFF@aol.com Received: from VTAILJEFF@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id q.f5.51476da2 (2519) for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 10:19:51 -0400 (EDT) From: VTAILJEFF@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 10:19:51 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Shannon's Accident Summarized X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1115907591" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1200 -------------------------------1115907591 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/12/2005 8:57:06 A.M. Central Standard Time, hwasti@starband.net writes: Well, I guess we still have a minor disagreement. To me the flight profile indicates a really really badly flown engine-out approach -- it does not say anything about the pilot's ability to fly an engine-out approach. Hamid, You are correct.. we do have a minor disagreement. "Badly flown"is an understatement of the facts. Yes, fly the airplane first. But Shannon didn't do that because when the chips were down his training did not kick in like with Rick Argente.. "Finally, reality sets in and I leave the throttle alone in idle and pull the prop. I set the glide speed to 100 knots and then declared an emergency with Raleigh approach. Luckily, I had just past Sanford-Lee airport (KTTA) which was only five miles or so behind me." Everyone should be able to do that-- sad fact Shannon completely screwed that away-- Cause of accident: 1. Pilot Error -- poor judgement/ decisional error-- departed OSH with known mechanical deficiency 2. Pilot Error-- procedural error-- failed to follow established emergency procedures by setting up best glide and proceeding directly to nearest suitable field 3. Pilot Error-- perceptual motor-- failed to recognize in time that he was getting below glideslope for engine out landing at MSN. Would training have helped Shannon.. only God knows. Clearly he was beyond listening to any of us. On that point, my friend, I believe you and I agree. Training can address each of these pilot error deficiencies but only if the pilot is willing to learn. Why was Rick successful and Shannon not? Rick-- what is your experience level and training level in dealing with this situation? How did it help you or hurt you? Training is cheap insurance--Anyone game? Jeff Edwards -------------------------------1115907591 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In a message dated 5/12/2005 8:57:06 A.M. Central Standard Time,=20 hwasti@starband.net writes:

<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>Well, I=20 guess we still have a minor disagreement. To me the flight profile=20 indicates a really really badly flown engine-out approach -- it does not s= ay=20 anything about the pilot's ability to fly an engine-out approach.=20

Hamid,

You are correct.. we do have a minor disagreement. "Badly flown"is an=20 understatement of the facts. Yes, fly the airplane first. But Shannon didn't= do=20 that because when the chips were down his training did not kick in like with= =20 Rick Argente.. "Finally, reality sets in and I leave the throttle alone in i= dle=20 and pull the prop. I set the glide speed to 100 knots and then declare= d an=20 emergency with Raleigh approach. Luckily, I had just past Sanford-Lee=20 airport (KTTA) which was only five miles or so behind me."

Everyone should be able to do that-- sad fact Shannon completely screwe= d=20 that away--

Cause of accident:

1. Pilot Error -- poor judgement/ decisional error-- departed OSH with=20 known mechanical deficiency

2. Pilot Error-- procedural error-- failed to follow established emerge= ncy=20 procedures by setting up best glide and proceeding directly to nearest suita= ble=20 field

3. Pilot Error-- perceptual motor-- failed to recognize in time that he= was=20 getting below glideslope for engine out landing at MSN.

Would training have helped Shannon.. only God knows. Clearly he was bey= ond=20 listening to any of us. On that point, my friend, I believe you and I=20 agree.

Training can address each of these pilot error deficiencies but only if= the=20 pilot is willing to learn. Why was Rick successful and Shannon not? Rick-- w= hat=20 is your experience level and training level in dealing with this situation?=20= How=20 did it help you or hurt you?

Training is cheap insurance--Anyone game?

Jeff Edwards

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