Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #27357
From: <Sky2high@aol.com>
Sender: Marvin Kaye <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: RAM, SLAM, BAM - MAP, WHAP, ZAP - HUH?
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 23:30:32 -0500
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
In a message dated 12/29/2004 8:39:42 P.M. Central Standard Time, Walter@advancedpilot.com writes:
**MAP (displayed in inches of Hg) is not actually “absolute” since it
is ambient pressure (AP) plus gauge sensed pressure (GP).   That is
indicated MAP = AP + GP.  At wide open throttle (WOT), GP can be
positive from pressure created via a ram air induction system and
limited by KIAS.   GP can be negative (vacuum) at reduced throttle
(reducing air in the induction system).  Ram air may overcome the
slight closing of the throttle to where the MAP = AP.**

I can see how the GP could be higher than ambient in a non-running
induction system undergoing ram air effect.  Are you saying that in a
RUNNING engine's intake that the GP can be higher than ambient?   If
so, can you explain the physics of this to me.  I must be missing
something.  Are you measuring that the RAM air effect can be so high as
to overcome the air sucked in by the engine?
Walter,
 
I am only talking about running engines in flight, not on a laboratory stand.  At WOT and 200 KIAS utilizing a ram air induction system, the GP component of indicated MAP is positive, perhaps even by as much as 2" Hg.  Thus, the MAP = AP + GP.  Lets say at an altitude where the AP is 20" and the GP is +2", the MAP is 22".  At the same altitude, suppose the throttle is reduced, yielding a GP of -2" (vacuum). thus the MAP would be 18" (momentarily, as the ram would be reduced when the air speed bled off), a 4" Hg swing.  If the throttle was closed only slightly, enough to reduce the total stream pressure 1" (to 21"), some ram air would still keep the MAP higher than AP alone.
 

** This gives rise to the question: Should I connect the AP port to the
same static air used by the altimeter?**

  It sure looks that way, doesn't it?
Yes, and I wonder if pressurized aircraft do just that.
 


   **Side Note:  If an electronic ignition is used and one of the
controlling parameters is MAP, the ambient pressure is obtained from
the position of the sensor, generally located in the “brain” box that
is often placed under the cowling and is sensing the cooling air output
pressure.  This is generally slightly above “static” ambient pressure. 
I misplaced the measurement I once made of this but I remember it was
maybe about .25” Hg greater.  At cruise, this is a true difference of
about .5” in what the MAP indicator is showing and what the electronic
ignition is using for timing adjustments.**

In answer to your side note, there are some pitfalls in using MAP as a
determining factor in setting timing.  The only factor which trumps all
others is thetaPP.  The optimal thetaPP is about 16.  The major factor
after that is peak pressure being maintained below the detonation
margin.  The use of multiple factors in attempting to calculate those
answers is, at best, iffy.  It's much better to measure thetaPP than to
try to calculate it..  It's the only way I've seen that has the
capability to maximize output and be certain that the detonation margin
is maintained.
Regardless of the ideal, my commentary was only to point out that what you see ain't necessarily what you got.  The fact is that extant electronic ignitions have an option that allows combinations of RPM and MAP (or a facsimile thereof) to alter timing - usually by advancing the timing.  An option with the Lightspeed system is a display that shows the MAP used for making such adjustments - it may not match the MAP display on on engine monitoring system.
 

**Side note:  Consider that ram air can raise the induction air
pressure higher than that utilized by the fuel injectors (obtained, for
example, from the upper cooling plenum) to help atomize the fuel.  This
may suppress the best atomization and shrouded injectors utilizing the
higher ram air, available before the throttle body, may improve
atomization.  Such a system is similar to the way super/turbo charged
engines operate.**

Yes, it appears that the optimal upper deck pressure on injectors may
be in the area of a 3 psi differential.
 
That's interesting,  3 psi is 6.1" Hg. - not possible for me no matter how fast I go.  The best I can hope for is 0 psi at WOT or by flying with a greatly reduced throttle setting. But, at least it is not negative psi.  Does this mean that turbo/super charged systems maintain such a differential?  If only I could use the 12-port electronic injectors supplied with my motorcycle and, they don't need no stink'nr to help with atomization.  
 
 
Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk
Lancair N92EX IO320 Aurora, IL (KARR)

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