Return-Path: Sender: "Marvin Kaye" To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 12:23:10 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-m19.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.11] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.5) with ESMTP id 524525 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 09 Nov 2004 12:03:52 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.137.11; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id q.142.3859e983 (3972) for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 12:03:12 -0500 (EST) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <142.3859e983.2ec25250@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 12:03:12 EST Subject: Re: [LML] LNC2 Cooling X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1100019792" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 -------------------------------1100019792 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/6/2004 8:28:35 PM Central Standard Time, twobarons@saber.net writes: I really do appreciate all the posts in the last month or so on cooling and insight gained from Ada. However, I did find it all a bit disjointed but was able to pull bits a pieces of info from all the posts. This subject is very hard to verbalize, but I will try. Cyl.# 1- Always has been very cool (170 C)[340F] ,so it is a non issue. Cyl# 2-The hottest (200[390F] to 210 C[410F]) in cruise. I actually had to replace it at 850 hours due to it being "out of round".From the List I learned that you have to drive the air down thru the FRONT on # 2, at the flat spot, where there are very small to no cooling fins. This was very easy to do by cutting 3/4" off of the 45 degrees ramp that is actually touching the cylinder. This opened up a gap about 1/4" directly in the front center of # 2. No air was going over the front lower quarter of # 2. Now air is going over and under # 2. The result is a 10 to 15 degree C drop in temp. The piece that I cut off has no structural value to the baffling and looks like it was designed to force the air up into the plenum area. Cyl # 4- Always ran cool like # 1 ( I need 4 ahead of 3 as a reference) Cyl # 4 has a curved baffling piece about 1/2" from the flat spot in the very rear of the engine that allows air to be forced downward at the very place it needs the most air.Again, a flat spot with very small if any cooling fins. Cyl#3- Always hot like # 2. Looking at the rear of # 3, you can see how the air cannot go through the top rear of 3 # (guess what, the flat spot).It should be a fairly simple matter to make the rear of # 3 look like the rear of # 4 ( a curved piece that stands off from the top rear of # 3) I'm sorry that this is so wordy, but that is the nature of conversation. Also, I really love my airplane, but feel that Lancair let us down in the design of the baffling. I will report on the progress of # 3 next week. Sincerely, Fred N. Baron, Lancair 9BF (Don't fly like my brother) Fred, Verrrrry Interrrrresting! I have slowly been attacking cooling and cooling drag forever. So...... The latest configuration includes the use of silicon baffle seals instead of the thin black weinie stuff Lancair supplies and expanding air intake ramps to avoid the turbulence surrounding sharp cutoffs while slowing down the air. Yesterday's flight was at 6500 ft(9800m) [6000 ft palt (1830m)], 40F (4C), 30.44 Hg (1031mb). Ok, you have got to do the conversions (except temp) from here on out. 180 KIAS (194 KTAS), 25.2" MAP, 2500 RPM, 172F (78C) oil temp. The cooling air exit temperature was 126F (52C) for a rise of 86F (48C). Upper/lower plenum pressure difference was 9.7" H2O and the lower plenum/ambient pressure difference was about 2" H2O. Other considerations: 1) Cyl #1 - has about a 4"x4" deflector on the front to raise the temperature near to other cylinders. 2) Cyl #2 - has the leading edge deflector cut off, the lower fin wrap moved fwd 1/4" (drilled new holes) and a deflector added to route some air down below the "flat spot". This dropped the temp about 15 - 20F. 3) A separate ram air is supplied to injector shrouds (all injectors are .022) that matches or increases the air pressure over the manifold pressure to assist in equal atomization of fuel. This maintains a less than a .3 gph spread between cylinders operating at peak (so called "lean test"). 4) I use a small oil cooler with a separate NACA duct supply although the exit air is dumped into the common lower plenum. After Cyl #1 peaked at 1370F, the mixture was enrichened to 10.3 gph and the following stabilized temperatures were observed: CHT EGT / CHT EGT in C 1 360 1260 182 682 2 370 1270 188 688 3 370 1280 188 693 4 390 1290 199 699 Note also I currently use the LASAR ignition system and ECI Cerminil Cylinders which are finned slightly different than Lycomings (about 210 hrs of use). I now want to reduce the temperature of the new hot cylinder, cyl #4. Is #4 running lean? It used to be the first to lean. I am looking at exhaust shields (I have the type IV exhaust, front mounted throttle body), although the cabin heat muff is on the #4 exhaust pipe. Maybe I will forcibly direct some air over #4. I also wish I had a more accurate engine monitor - more accurate than the jumps reported by VM's EPI 800. Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk N92EX IO320 Aurora, IL (KARR) Some Assembly Required Using Common Hand Tools and Probes to Answer Burning Questions. -------------------------------1100019792 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 11/6/2004 8:28:35 PM Central Standard Time,=20 twobarons@saber.net writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>
I really do appreciate all the=20= posts in=20 the last month or so on cooling and insight gained from Ada. However, I di= d=20 find it all a bit disjointed but was able to pull bits a pieces of info fr= om=20 all the posts. This subject is very hard to verbalize, but I will=20 try.
Cyl.# 1- Always has been very c= ool (170=20 C)[340F] ,so it is a non issue.
Cyl# 2-The hottest (200[390F] t= o 210=20 C[410F]) in cruise. I actually had to replace it at 850 hours due to it be= ing=20 "out of round".From the List I learned that you have to drive the air down= =20 thru the FRONT on # 2, at the flat spot, where there are  very small=20= to=20 no cooling fins. This was very easy to do by cutting 3/4" off of the 45=20 degrees ramp that is actually touching the cylinder. This opened up a gap=20 about 1/4" directly in the front center of # 2. No air was going over the=20 front lower quarter of # 2. Now air is going over and under # 2. The resul= t is=20 a 10 to 15 degree C drop in temp. The piece that I cut off has no structur= al=20 value to the baffling and looks like it was designed to force the air=20 up into the plenum area.
Cyl # 4- Always ran cool like #= 1 ( I=20 need 4 ahead of 3 as a reference)
 Cyl # 4 has a curved baff= ling=20 piece about 1/2" from the flat spot in the very rear of the engi= ne=20 that allows air to be forced downward  at the very place it needs the most air.Ag= ain, a=20 flat spot with very small if any cooling fins.
Cyl#3- Always hot like # 2. Loo= king at=20 the rear of # 3, you can see how the air cannot  go through the top r= ear=20 of 3 # (guess what, the flat spot).It should be a fairly simple matter to=20= make=20 the rear of # 3 look like the rear of # 4 ( a curved piece that stands off= =20 from the top rear of # 3)
I'm sorry that this is so wordy= , but=20 that is the nature of conversation. Also, I really love my airplane, but f= eel=20 that Lancair let us down in the design of the baffling. I will report= on=20 the progress of # 3 next week.
Sincerely, Fred N. Baron, Lanca= ir 9BF=20 (Don't fly like my brother)
Fred,
 
Verrrrry Interrrrresting!
 
I have slowly been attacking cooling and cooling drag forever. =20 So......
 
The latest configuration includes the use of silicon baffle seals inste= ad=20 of the thin black weinie stuff Lancair supplies and expanding air intake ram= ps=20 to avoid the turbulence surrounding sharp cutoffs while slowing down the air= .=20
 
Yesterday's flight was at 6500 ft(9800m) [6000 ft palt (1830m)], 4= 0F=20 (4C), 30.44 Hg (1031mb).  Ok, you have got to do the conversions (excep= t=20 temp) from here on out.  180 KIAS (194 KTAS), 25.2" MAP, 2500 RPM,= =20 172F (78C) oil temp.
 
The cooling air exit temperature was 126F (52C) for a rise of 86F=20 (48C).  Upper/lower plenum pressure difference was 9.7" H2O and the low= er=20 plenum/ambient pressure difference was about 2" H2O.
 
Other considerations:
1) Cyl #1 - has about a 4"x4" deflector on the front to raise the=20 temperature near to other cylinders.
2) Cyl #2 - has the leading edge deflector cut off, the lower fin wrap=20 moved fwd 1/4" (drilled new holes) and a deflector added to route some air d= own=20 below the "flat spot". This dropped the temp about 15 - 20F.
3) A separate ram air is supplied to injector shrouds (all=20 injectors are .022) that matches or increases the air pressure ove= r=20 the manifold pressure to assist in equal atomization of fuel.  Thi= s=20 maintains a less than a .3 gph spread between cylinders operating at pe= ak=20 (so called "lean test").
4) I use a small oil cooler with a separate NACA duct supply although t= he=20 exit air is dumped into the common lower plenum.
 
After Cyl #1 peaked at 1370F, the mixture was enrichened to 10.3 gph an= d=20 the following stabilized temperatures were observed:
 
  CHT  EGT / CHT EGT in C
1 360  1260  182  682
2 370  1270  188  688
3 370  1280  188  693
4 390  1290  199  699
 
Note also I currently use the LASAR ignition system and ECI Cerminil=20 Cylinders which are finned slightly different than Lycomings (about 210 hrs=20= of=20 use).
 
I now want to reduce the temperature of the new hot cylinder, cyl #4.&n= bsp;=20 Is #4 running lean? It used to be the first to lean.  I am looking at=20 exhaust shields (I have the type IV exhaust, front mounted throttle body),=20 although the cabin heat muff is on the #4 exhaust pipe.  Maybe I will=20 forcibly direct some air over #4.
 
I also wish I had a more accurate engine monitor - more accurate t= han=20 the jumps reported by VM's EPI 800. 
 
Scott=20 Krueger AKA Grayhawk
N92EX IO320 Aurora, IL (KARR)

Some Assembly=20 Required
Using Common Hand Tools and
Probes to Answer Burning Questions.
 
 
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