Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #23704
From: Bryan J. Burr <bjburr@mwheli.com>
Sender: Marvin Kaye <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: FW: [Lancair_ES] N511WD Legacy crash
Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 09:33:23 -0400
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
Message
Gentlemen,
Here is an excellent perspective from an aircraft controller about the unfortunate loss of Mr. Durr.  Ron Galbraith is building an ES and has been quite active on the yahoo group ES site.  He posted his message to that site.
 
Bryan Burr
N132BB
Super ES
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Galbraith [mailto:n5es@mac.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 8:30 PM
To: Lancair_ES@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Lancair_ES] N511WD Legacy crash

I don't know if any of you have been keeping track on the LML about
this crash, but I'd like to try to give you guys some insight as to
"real world" stuff as it relates to flying into or near weather
systems.    First off, I'm not telling you what I think happened in
this crash, but I'm telling you what it's really like to fly in the 
enroute environment.   There are some comments over on the other list
that are from some very very unimformed folks.
     When you are talking to a controller in the enroute environment, it
is highly likely that that controller is not a pilot, and may have
never been in a small airplane.  There is no requirement for them (us)
to steer you around the weather.   It is up to you to ask for vectors
around the weather we see.   I can tell you for a fact that if you are
flying towards a thunderstorm, the controller will tell you something
like  "N5ES, I'm showing moderate precip at 12 o'clock 10 miles,
extends 10 miles along your route of flight".       If you say "roger"
and nothing else, the controller isn't going to do anything else for
you.  He is assuming you know what you are doing.  He might even
comment to the controller next to him about the idiot flying through
the weather......yes that idiot is you.    You must relay the
seriousness of the situation to the controller, and he will do what
he/she can to help you out, but this is the key.  I can't stress enough
to all of you that you are in charge up there, and if you are getting
into a situation you are not confortable with, refuse the clearance if
they try to vector you into weather that you can't handle.     If you
need to make a quick 180, then do it now and explain why later.  There
isn't a FSDO anywhere that will take your license if what you did was
an emergency situation.   Don't kill yourself and your passengers just
because you are afraid of the ATC police.   The controllers want to
avoid turning anyone in for ANY type of violation, and they are not the
police.   If you are turned in for a violation in the enroute
environment, then it's most likely out of the controllers hands.   It's
alot more paper work for us than the pilots in that case anyway.  
Please, ask for help.    Don't hold back, because you might be
embarrased  of what you say.    If you need help, ask, no DEMAND it.  
If you want more than just ATC help, then ask for help with an
experienced pilot, and they will find someone to come over and assist. 
  They have a computer right there that the supervisor can access every
pilot in the ARTCC, and find one right now with the experience you
need.
All of the ARTCC's now have Nexrad weather displayed on the radar
scope.  It is possible that the controller doesn't have it set
properly, or might even have it turned off.    It's that time of year
guys........fly safe out there.
    This comment has nothing to do with the Legacy crash, it is my
personal comments, and meant to make you stay out of trouble, or at
least something to think about.

Ron Galbraith
LNCE - N5ES



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