Return-Path: Sender: (Marvin Kaye) To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 09:33:23 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net ([204.127.202.64] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b2) with ESMTP id 3201728 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 02 May 2004 09:26:46 -0400 Received: from vaio (c-67-172-232-236.client.comcast.net[67.172.232.236]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20040502132637016009rnlee>; Sun, 2 May 2004 13:26:42 +0000 From: "Bryan J. Burr" X-Original-To: Subject: FW: [Lancair_ES] N511WD Legacy crash X-Original-Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 07:25:05 -0600 X-Original-Message-ID: <029201c43048$e8a718a0$ece8ac43@VAIO> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0293_01C43016.9E0CA8A0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0293_01C43016.9E0CA8A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gentlemen, Here is an excellent perspective from an aircraft controller about the unfortunate loss of Mr. Durr. Ron Galbraith is building an ES and has been quite active on the yahoo group ES site. He posted his message to that site. Bryan Burr N132BB Super ES -----Original Message----- From: Ron Galbraith [mailto:n5es@mac.com] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 8:30 PM To: Lancair_ES@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Lancair_ES] N511WD Legacy crash I don't know if any of you have been keeping track on the LML about this crash, but I'd like to try to give you guys some insight as to "real world" stuff as it relates to flying into or near weather systems. First off, I'm not telling you what I think happened in this crash, but I'm telling you what it's really like to fly in the enroute environment. There are some comments over on the other list that are from some very very unimformed folks. When you are talking to a controller in the enroute environment, it is highly likely that that controller is not a pilot, and may have never been in a small airplane. There is no requirement for them (us) to steer you around the weather. It is up to you to ask for vectors around the weather we see. I can tell you for a fact that if you are flying towards a thunderstorm, the controller will tell you something like "N5ES, I'm showing moderate precip at 12 o'clock 10 miles, extends 10 miles along your route of flight". If you say "roger" and nothing else, the controller isn't going to do anything else for you. He is assuming you know what you are doing. He might even comment to the controller next to him about the idiot flying through the weather......yes that idiot is you. You must relay the seriousness of the situation to the controller, and he will do what he/she can to help you out, but this is the key. I can't stress enough to all of you that you are in charge up there, and if you are getting into a situation you are not confortable with, refuse the clearance if they try to vector you into weather that you can't handle. If you need to make a quick 180, then do it now and explain why later. There isn't a FSDO anywhere that will take your license if what you did was an emergency situation. Don't kill yourself and your passengers just because you are afraid of the ATC police. The controllers want to avoid turning anyone in for ANY type of violation, and they are not the police. If you are turned in for a violation in the enroute environment, then it's most likely out of the controllers hands. It's alot more paper work for us than the pilots in that case anyway. Please, ask for help. Don't hold back, because you might be embarrased of what you say. If you need help, ask, no DEMAND it. If you want more than just ATC help, then ask for help with an experienced pilot, and they will find someone to come over and assist. They have a computer right there that the supervisor can access every pilot in the ARTCC, and find one right now with the experience you need. All of the ARTCC's now have Nexrad weather displayed on the radar scope. It is possible that the controller doesn't have it set properly, or might even have it turned off. It's that time of year guys........fly safe out there. This comment has nothing to do with the Legacy crash, it is my personal comments, and meant to make you stay out of trouble, or at least something to think about. Ron Galbraith LNCE - N5ES To Post a message to the group, send it to: Lancair_ES@YahooGroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: Lancair_ES-unsubscribe@YahooGroups.com If you have questions for the group administrator, send it to: Lancair_ES-owner@YahooGroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Lancair_ES/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Lancair_ES-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ------=_NextPart_000_0293_01C43016.9E0CA8A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Gentlemen,
Here=20 is an excellent perspective from an aircraft controller about the = unfortunate=20 loss of Mr. Durr.  Ron Galbraith is building an ES and has been = quite=20 active on the yahoo group ES site.  He posted his message to that=20 site.
 
Bryan=20 Burr
N132BB
Super=20 ES
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Galbraith=20 [mailto:n5es@mac.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 8:30=20 PM
To: Lancair_ES@yahoogroups.com
Subject: = [Lancair_ES]=20 N511WD Legacy crash

I don't know if any of you = have been=20 keeping track on the LML about
this crash, but I'd like to try to = give you=20 guys some insight as to
"real world" stuff as it relates to flying = into or=20 near weather
systems.    First off, I'm not telling = you what=20 I think happened in
this crash, but I'm telling you what it's really = like to=20 fly in the 
enroute environment.   There are some = comments=20 over on the other list
that are from some very very unimformed=20 folks.
     When you are talking to a controller = in the=20 enroute environment, it
is highly likely that that controller is not = a=20 pilot, and may have
never been in a small airplane.  There is = no=20 requirement for them (us)
to steer you around the = weather.   It is=20 up to you to ask for vectors
around the weather we see.   = I can=20 tell you for a fact that if you are
flying towards a thunderstorm, = the=20 controller will tell you something
like  "N5ES, I'm showing = moderate=20 precip at 12 o'clock 10 miles,
extends 10 miles along your route of=20 flight".       If you say "roger"
and = nothing=20 else, the controller isn't going to do anything else for
you.  = He is=20 assuming you know what you are doing.  He might even
comment to = the=20 controller next to him about the idiot flying through
the = weather......yes=20 that idiot is you.    You must relay the
seriousness = of the=20 situation to the controller, and he will do what
he/she can to help = you out,=20 but this is the key.  I can't stress enough
to all of you that = you are=20 in charge up there, and if you are getting
into a situation you are = not=20 confortable with, refuse the clearance if
they try to vector you = into=20 weather that you can't handle.     If you
need = to make a=20 quick 180, then do it now and explain why later.  There
isn't a = FSDO=20 anywhere that will take your license if what you did was
an = emergency=20 situation.   Don't kill yourself and your passengers just =
because=20 you are afraid of the ATC police.   The controllers want to =
avoid=20 turning anyone in for ANY type of violation, and they are not the=20
police.   If you are turned in for a violation in the = enroute=20
environment, then it's most likely out of the controllers = hands.  =20 It's
alot more paper work for us than the pilots in that case=20 anyway.  
Please, ask for help.    Don't = hold back,=20 because you might be
embarrased  of what you = say.    If=20 you need help, ask, no DEMAND it.  
If you want more than = just ATC=20 help, then ask for help with an
experienced pilot, and they will = find=20 someone to come over and assist. 
  They have a computer = right=20 there that the supervisor can access every
pilot in the ARTCC, and = find one=20 right now with the experience you
need.
All of the ARTCC's now = have=20 Nexrad weather displayed on the radar
scope.  It is possible = that the=20 controller doesn't have it set
properly, or might even have it = turned=20 off.    It's that time of year
guys........fly safe = out=20 there.
    This comment has nothing to do with the = Legacy=20 crash, it is my
personal comments, and meant to make you stay out of = trouble, or at
least something to think about.

Ron = Galbraith
LNCE=20 - N5ES



To Post a message to the group, send it=20 to:

Lancair_ES@YahooGroups.com

To Unsubscribe, send a = blank=20 message to:

Lancair_ES-unsubscribe@YahooGroups.com

If you = have=20 questions for the group administrator, send it=20 to:

Lancair_ES-owner@YahooGroups.com


Yahoo! Groups=20 Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
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Yahoo! Groups Links
  • To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.co= m/group/Lancair_ES/
     =20
  • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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     =20
  • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of = Service.=20

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